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Old February 4th 04, 12:16 PM
Richard
 
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Default Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second

I've got both Chess Tiger 15.1 and Genius 2.01 on a crappy Palm Zire
(16Mhz). I've noticed that during analysis Chess Tiger calculates
significantly fewer positions per second than Genius. For example,
Tiger rarely gets about 200p/s, while Genius calculates 1000p/s on the
same position.

I've only got a basic Zire, so there's no ARM processor take advantage
of Genius' native ARM engine.

I could understand a smaller different in pos/sec, but this seems to
suggest Tiger is much weaker than Genius on the Palm. Or does Tiger do
more positional evaluation for each analysed position?

So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?

Interested,
Richard
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Old February 4th 04, 01:01 PM
HD
 
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Default Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second

Richard skrev:
I've got both Chess Tiger 15.1 and Genius 2.01 on a crappy Palm Zire
(16Mhz). I've noticed that during analysis Chess Tiger calculates
significantly fewer positions per second than Genius. For example,
Tiger rarely gets about 200p/s, while Genius calculates 1000p/s on the
same position.

I've only got a basic Zire, so there's no ARM processor take advantage
of Genius' native ARM engine.

I could understand a smaller different in pos/sec, but this seems to
suggest Tiger is much weaker than Genius on the Palm. Or does Tiger do
more positional evaluation for each analysed position?

So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?


The very last part probably applies best.


Interested,
Richard


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Old February 4th 04, 07:08 PM
Richard
 
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Default Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second

henri Arsenault wrote in message
So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?

Before the ARM porocessor version, Tiger was a bit stronger (about 200
points) than Genius, according to SSDF tests.

Henri


Thanks for the responses.

I am interested, on a technical level, how Tiger can be 200 points
stronger, yet evaluate 5 times fewer positions as Genius. Over a 7 min
analysis, Genius went 2-ply deeper than Tiger.

No doubt the technical details of these engines are kept under wraps,
but I have always assumed that going 2-ply deeper is a great
advantage.

Cheers,
Richard
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Old February 4th 04, 07:47 PM
Lukino
 
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Default Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second

Before the ARM porocessor version, Tiger was a bit stronger (about 200
points) than Genius, according to SSDF tests.


Any idea of Genius "force" in a Nokia s60 smartphone (it should have a 100
Mhz processor...)?

Thanks,

Luca




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Old February 4th 04, 11:06 PM
HD
 
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Default Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second

Richard skrev:
henri Arsenault wrote in message

So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?


Before the ARM porocessor version, Tiger was a bit stronger (about 200
points) than Genius, according to SSDF tests.

Henri



Thanks for the responses.

I am interested, on a technical level, how Tiger can be 200 points
stronger, yet evaluate 5 times fewer positions as Genius. Over a 7 min
analysis, Genius went 2-ply deeper than Tiger.

No doubt the technical details of these engines are kept under wraps,
but I have always assumed that going 2-ply deeper is a great
advantage.

Cheers,
Richard


There's only a clear advantage in the extra plies if they are more
accurate than the last plies of the other program. Therefore, when
talking about two different programs, its not that simple.

HD

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Old February 5th 04, 02:11 AM
Entropyfoe
 
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Default Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second

HD is right, it is more complex.
If the two more ply are based on only a simple material evaluation function
[for example in the extreme], vs two ply less but with mobility, king safety,
pawn structure etc, it will compensate.

Further, the use of quiescence search and extensions require that the number
of plies be defined more precisley.

-Jay


I am interested, on a technical level, how Tiger can be 200 points
stronger, yet evaluate 5 times fewer positions as Genius. Over a 7 min
analysis, Genius went 2-ply deeper than Tiger.

No doubt the technical details of these engines are kept under wraps,
but I have always assumed that going 2-ply deeper is a great
advantage.

Cheers,
Richard


There's only a clear advantage in the extra plies if they are more
accurate than the last plies of the other program. Therefore, when
talking about two different programs, its not that simple.

HD








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Old February 5th 04, 03:02 AM
Geoff
 
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Default Tiger/Genius on Palm: Positions per second

I am interested, on a technical level, how Tiger can be 200 points
stronger, yet evaluate 5 times fewer positions as Genius. Over a 7 min
analysis, Genius went 2-ply deeper than Tiger.

After a major international tournament about 1919 or so, a reporter
interviewed the great Capablanca and some minor master who had defeated
Capablance in their individual game. The reporter asked Capablanca how many
moves he could see ahead. "Ten moves", replied the Cuban GM. When the
reporter asked the other master how many moves he saw ahead he replied "One
move." The reporter was puzzled. "If Capablanca sees 10 moves ahead and you
only see one move ahead, how could you win the game?" he asked. The master
replied, "I always see the right move."

Geoff

"Richard" wrote in message
om...
henri Arsenault wrote in message
So, is Tiger really weaker? Or less "brute force"?

Before the ARM porocessor version, Tiger was a bit stronger (about 200
points) than Genius, according to SSDF tests.

Henri


Thanks for the responses.


No doubt the technical details of these engines are kept under wraps,
but I have always assumed that going 2-ply deeper is a great
advantage.

Cheers,
Richard



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