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Old February 12th 04, 04:08 PM
Cesar A. K. Grossmann
 
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Default How electronic chessboards works

Hi!

I'm curious to know how the DGT Chessboard works
(http://www.dgtprojects.com/eboard.htm). Can someone explain this to me?
In great details, please.

[]s
--
..O. Cesar A. K. Grossmann ICQ UIN: 35659423
...O http://www.LinuxByGrossmann.cjb.net/
OOO Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur

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Old February 13th 04, 02:58 AM
Mike N.
 
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Default How electronic chessboards works

In addition, are there other similar devices available?

Thanks.

Mike


"Cesar A. K. Grossmann" wrote in message
...
Hi!

I'm curious to know how the DGT Chessboard works
(http://www.dgtprojects.com/eboard.htm). Can someone explain this to me?
In great details, please.

[]s
--
.O. Cesar A. K. Grossmann ICQ UIN: 35659423
..O http://www.LinuxByGrossmann.cjb.net/
OOO Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur



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Old February 13th 04, 03:27 AM
Noah Roberts
 
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Default How electronic chessboards works

Cesar A. K. Grossmann wrote:
Hi!

I'm curious to know how the DGT Chessboard works
(http://www.dgtprojects.com/eboard.htm). Can someone explain this to me?
In great details, please.

[]s

My guess is magnets or RFID chips of some sort.

--
"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office
in foreign policy matters with war on my mind." - Bush

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Old February 13th 04, 11:29 AM
David Richerby
 
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Default How electronic chessboards works

Noah Roberts wrote:
Cesar A. K. Grossmann wrote:
I'm curious to know how the DGT Chessboard works
(http://www.dgtprojects.com/eboard.htm). Can someone explain this to
me? In great details, please.


My guess is magnets or RFID chips of some sort.


I think it's very simple RFID but I'm not at all sure. If that is the
case, it works essentially by the board emitting an electromagnetic field
which interacts with the different shaped aerials in the pieces in
different ways. The baord can then detect the changes in the field with
its own aerials.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Impossible Robot (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ high-tech robot but it can't exist!
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Old February 13th 04, 07:44 PM
Cesar A. K. Grossmann
 
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Default How electronic chessboards works

David Richerby wrote:

Noah Roberts wrote:

My guess is magnets or RFID chips of some sort.


I think it's very simple RFID but I'm not at all sure. If that is the
case, it works essentially by the board emitting an electromagnetic field
which interacts with the different shaped aerials in the pieces in
different ways. The baord can then detect the changes in the field with
its own aerials.


http://home.planet.nl/~jeroenvandorp...d/dgtboard.htm suggest
RFID too, but how it works? I find this article
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/smart-label.htm that gives some
hints about it.

I was thinking that all you need is to have the same is used in home
alarms, an magnetic and a switch that closes when the magnetic is near
(a magnetic under every chess piece, and a "magnetic" switch under every
cell of the chessboard). You mount the board and "tells" it that the
initial position is set up, and from that time the chessboard simply
tracks the conneting/disconnecting switches to know what piece goes to
what position, e. g., if in the first move the key at e2 opens and the
key at e4 closes, then the chesspiece that was in e2 was moved to e4,
the board then consults what it thinks was the current position before
the move, and learns that on e2 there was a pawn, so the move is a pawn
move from e2 to e4. Can this work?

[]s
--
..O. Cesar A. K. Grossmann ICQ UIN: 35659423
...O http://www.LinuxByGrossmann.cjb.net/
OOO Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur



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Old February 13th 04, 08:48 PM
Noah Roberts
 
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Default How electronic chessboards works

Cesar A. K. Grossmann wrote:
David Richerby wrote:

Noah Roberts wrote:

My guess is magnets or RFID chips of some sort.



I think it's very simple RFID but I'm not at all sure. If that is the
case, it works essentially by the board emitting an electromagnetic field
which interacts with the different shaped aerials in the pieces in
different ways. The baord can then detect the changes in the field with
its own aerials.



http://home.planet.nl/~jeroenvandorp...d/dgtboard.htm suggest
RFID too, but how it works? I find this article
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/smart-label.htm that gives some
hints about it.

I was thinking that all you need is to have the same is used in home
alarms, an magnetic and a switch that closes when the magnetic is near
(a magnetic under every chess piece, and a "magnetic" switch under every
cell of the chessboard). You mount the board and "tells" it that the
initial position is set up, and from that time the chessboard simply
tracks the conneting/disconnecting switches to know what piece goes to
what position, e. g., if in the first move the key at e2 opens and the
key at e4 closes, then the chesspiece that was in e2 was moved to e4,
the board then consults what it thinks was the current position before
the move, and learns that on e2 there was a pawn, so the move is a pawn
move from e2 to e4. Can this work?


What if two pieces are picked up and only one set down? What if two
pieces are picked up and both set down? I think these scenarios pose a
problem.


--
"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office
in foreign policy matters with war on my mind." - Bush

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Old February 13th 04, 09:10 PM
Doom & Gloom Dave
 
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Default How electronic chessboards works

Noah Roberts wrote:
Cesar A. K. Grossmann wrote:
David Richerby wrote:

Noah Roberts wrote:

My guess is magnets or RFID chips of some sort.


I think it's very simple RFID but I'm not at all sure. If that is
the case, it works essentially by the board emitting an
electromagnetic field which interacts with the different shaped
aerials in the pieces in different ways. The baord can then

detect
the changes in the field with its own aerials.



http://home.planet.nl/~jeroenvandorp...d/dgtboard.htm
suggest RFID too, but how it works? I find this article
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/smart-label.htm that gives

some
hints about it.

I was thinking that all you need is to have the same is used in

home
alarms, an magnetic and a switch that closes when the magnetic is
near (a magnetic under every chess piece, and a "magnetic" switch
under every cell of the chessboard). You mount the board and

"tells"
it that the initial position is set up, and from that time the
chessboard simply tracks the conneting/disconnecting switches to
know what piece goes to what position, e. g., if in the first move
the key at e2 opens and the key at e4 closes, then the chesspiece
that was in e2 was moved to e4,
the board then consults what it thinks was the current position
before the move, and learns that on e2 there was a pawn, so the

move
is a pawn move from e2 to e4. Can this work?


What if two pieces are picked up and only one set down? What if two
pieces are picked up and both set down? I think these scenarios

pose
a problem.


Plus promotion!! Promotion is the real killer for this scheme.


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Old February 13th 04, 09:23 PM
Cesar A. K. Grossmann
 
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Default How electronic chessboards works

Noah Roberts wrote:

What if two pieces are picked up and only one set down?


Like in a capture? Logic can deal with it with ease... Suppose that a
black and a white piece are picked, and a piece is set down in the place
of the black piece. It was a capture done by white. The same applies
when the piece set down is not placed in the place of any of the pieces
that where picked. It was an "en passant" capture.

What if two
pieces are picked up and both set down? I think these scenarios pose a
problem.


Like in the castling? Again, the logic of the program can deal with it
with ease. Suppose that the rook at h1 and the king at e1 where picked,
and two pieces where placed on f1 and g1. It was the king-side castling.
But it's necessary that the chessboard "knows" the rules of chess, and
can detect what is happening.

[]s
--
..O. Cesar A. K. Grossmann ICQ UIN: 35659423
...O http://www.LinuxByGrossmann.cjb.net/
OOO Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur

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Old February 13th 04, 09:45 PM
Noah Roberts
 
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Default How electronic chessboards works

Cesar A. K. Grossmann wrote:
Noah Roberts wrote:


What if two pieces are picked up and only one set down?



Like in a capture? Logic can deal with it with ease... Suppose that a
black and a white piece are picked, and a piece is set down in the place
of the black piece. It was a capture done by white. The same applies
when the piece set down is not placed in the place of any of the pieces
that where picked. It was an "en passant" capture.


What if the player decides not to make that move? Many OTB players feel
that you can decide not to make the move so long as you have not set
down the captured piece.

What if two pieces are picked up and both set down? I think these
scenarios pose a problem.



Like in the castling? Again, the logic of the program can deal with it
with ease. Suppose that the rook at h1 and the king at e1 where picked,
and two pieces where placed on f1 and g1. It was the king-side castling.
But it's necessary that the chessboard "knows" the rules of chess, and
can detect what is happening.


In OTB games, which I see this thing as being the most useful for,
people often ignore rules about touching pieces, or picking up pieces,
and such things. I think the board would have to do more than rely on
where pieces are to get its information about what they are or it can
fail in many general use applications.

And like "Doom and Gloom Dave" mentions, pawn promotions cause problems
without ignoring tournament rules.

--
"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office
in foreign policy matters with war on my mind." - Bush

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Old February 13th 04, 10:51 PM
Cesar A. K. Grossmann
 
Posts: n/a
Default How electronic chessboards works

Noah Roberts wrote:

What if the player decides not to make that move? Many OTB players feel
that you can decide not to make the move so long as you have not set
down the captured piece.


The chess rules tell that a pieced touched must be played, and so on.
*But* you can make the chessboard consider the lance incomplete until
you hit an electronic clock attached to the chessboard, or a switch that
tells the chessboard that you have completed the move.

In OTB games, which I see this thing as being the most useful for,
people often ignore rules about touching pieces, or picking up pieces,
and such things. I think the board would have to do more than rely on
where pieces are to get its information about what they are or it can
fail in many general use applications.


I think that most of the cases can be handled if you sinalize when the
move was completed, so the chessboard will compare the new position with
the old position and make the necessary assumptions. Like a blind chess
game, where you don't see the pieces, only the moves.

And like "Doom and Gloom Dave" mentions, pawn promotions cause problems
without ignoring tournament rules.


Pawn promotion is the worst case until now. You must have a way to tell
the chess board what piece you choose. You can put 4 switches in a side
of the board, and when you promote a pawn, you also touches one of the
switches to tell the chessboard what piece you choose. It's the problem
with the RFID solution too, you must have some spare pieces to deal with
the promotion. AFAIK you can have only 2 queens of the same color at a
time in the board with DGT chessboards.

Any other problem?

[]s
P.S.: Sorry the "engrish"
--
..O. Cesar A. K. Grossmann ICQ UIN: 35659423
...O http://www.LinuxByGrossmann.cjb.net/
OOO Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur

http://www.clickfome.com.br/ - Clique e doe!
Soja Transgênica: http://tinyurl.com/2pfou

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