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Old February 21st 04, 12:30 AM
Robert Smith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 or Fritz 8

I'm really confused, chessbase website says,

"Original Fritz interface: Included in the Shredder 8 pack age is the latest
Fritz interface with extensive training and entertainment features for
beginners, club players and grandmasters. It
also gives you full and free access to the ChessBase Playchess server (1
year), where you can play games against people all over the world. Naturally
the Shredder 8 engine runs under the Fritz interface."

So does that just mean it comes with the interface of Fritz 8 or the full
version of Fritz 8? You can still buy Fritz 8 for the same price as
Shredder 8. So what should I buy because it makes no sense to me and I've
been trying to research this online for two hours now...

--
-Robert Smith
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Old February 21st 04, 01:27 AM
Mig
 
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Default Shredder 8 or Fritz 8

Hello there. The software is basically identical except for the
engines. There are different 3D boards but otherwise every piece of
software of the same "Fritz interface" generation is the same except
for the playing engine.

They call it the Fritz interface because they upgrade it with each new
version of Fritz. So Shredder 8, Junior 8, Tiger 15, and HIARCS 9 all
use the Fritz 8 interface. There are different 3D boards and ones that
come out later include bug fixes and minor upgrades, but since these
can all be done using the free online update feature, it's not a big
deal.

Saludos, Mig

http://www.chessninja.com
Because Losing Sucks
http://www.chessbase.com


On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:30:51 +1100, "Robert Smith"
wrote:

I'm really confused, chessbase website says,

"Original Fritz interface: Included in the Shredder 8 pack age is the latest
Fritz interface with extensive training and entertainment features for
beginners, club players and grandmasters. It
also gives you full and free access to the ChessBase Playchess server (1
year), where you can play games against people all over the world. Naturally
the Shredder 8 engine runs under the Fritz interface."

So does that just mean it comes with the interface of Fritz 8 or the full
version of Fritz 8? You can still buy Fritz 8 for the same price as
Shredder 8. So what should I buy because it makes no sense to me and I've
been trying to research this online for two hours now...


Mig Greengard
http://www.chessninja.com
Because Losing Sucks
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Old February 21st 04, 01:33 AM
Geoff
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 or Fritz 8

Flip a coin. They are both excellent and will crush anyone, including
Masters.They will both look pretty much the same on your screen.

Geoff
"Robert Smith" wrote in message
u...
I'm really confused, chessbase website says,

"Original Fritz interface: Included in the Shredder 8 pack age is the

latest
Fritz interface with extensive training and entertainment features for
beginners, club players and grandmasters. It
also gives you full and free access to the ChessBase Playchess server (1
year), where you can play games against people all over the world.

Naturally
the Shredder 8 engine runs under the Fritz interface."

So does that just mean it comes with the interface of Fritz 8 or the full
version of Fritz 8? You can still buy Fritz 8 for the same price as
Shredder 8. So what should I buy because it makes no sense to me and I've
been trying to research this online for two hours now...

--
-Robert Smith
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
---------------------------------
Remove 'nospam.' from my email address if you wish to reply via email.




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Old February 21st 04, 04:15 AM
Euclid
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 or Fritz 8

If you buy Fritz 8, you get the "Fritz 8 Chessbase GUI" plus the Fritz 8
engine. If you buy Shredder 8, you get the "Fritz 8 Chessbase GUI" plus the
Shredder 8 engine. So the only difference is the engines. You also get that
same GUI if you buy Hiarcs 9, Tiger 15, Junior 8, etc. They just like to
call it by the nickname "Fritz", I guess, which is an affectionate name in
German, perhaps slightly humorous depending on context. Someone who has
German as their first language could probably explain better.

Which is better? It depends on your application. If you want to do analysis,
get Fritz 8, because the Shredder 8 analysis is very buggy. It likes to play
"give away chess" when providing analysis. However my guess is that Shredder
8 is stronger by 50-100 Elo points.
--
Euclid

"Robert Smith" wrote in message
u...
I'm really confused, chessbase website says,

"Original Fritz interface: Included in the Shredder 8 pack age is the latest
Fritz interface with extensive training and entertainment features for
beginners, club players and grandmasters. It
also gives you full and free access to the ChessBase Playchess server (1
year), where you can play games against people all over the world. Naturally
the Shredder 8 engine runs under the Fritz interface."

So does that just mean it comes with the interface of Fritz 8 or the full
version of Fritz 8? You can still buy Fritz 8 for the same price as
Shredder 8. So what should I buy because it makes no sense to me and I've
been trying to research this online for two hours now...

--
-Robert Smith
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Remove 'nospam.' from my email address if you wish to reply via email.



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Old February 21st 04, 03:34 PM
Michael Wäsch
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 or Fritz 8

Hi,

German as their first language could probably explain better.


I am German and all I can tell you is, that Fritz is the short form of the
name Friedrich. It was very popular in former times in prussia when we had
emperors named Friedrich or Friedrich-Wilhelm.

Sometimes Fritz is the nickname for the typical German for what ever a
typical German is.

Michael




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Old February 23rd 04, 03:34 PM
Euclid
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 or Fritz 8

It is well known that Shredder 7/8 provides faulty analysis, frequently
giving away its queen, etc, i.e. "give-away chess". Because of this,
Shredder's analysis is worthless, unreliable beyond the 1st move. It seems
to be OK for the 1st move "pair". So your move with white and black's reply
(or vice versa) is apparently OK, but anything beyond that is subject to
this built in bug. It's not a matter for debate. It's not a matter of legit
vs crack copies. The author has admitted to it, and calls it a "feature"?!
It has been frequently discussed on CCC and mentioned on this NG
occasionally.

If you don't see this bug, maybe you aren't using infinite analysis mode, I
don't know. That's the only way I use Shredder, and I let it go for long
times doing its analysis chores. It finds the best (or a good) first move as
evidenced by its high rating (#1 in the world), but then the garbage begins.
Sometimes the analysis seems OK, but frequently it's pure garbage - no way
to predict.
--
Euclid

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote in message
anews.com...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Euclid wrote:

Which is better? It depends on your application. If you want to do

analysis,
get Fritz 8, because the Shredder 8 analysis is very buggy. It likes to

play
"give away chess" when providing analysis. However my guess is that

Shredder
8 is stronger by 50-100 Elo points.


Can you explain this point about "Give Away" chess? I have not seen it
do such a thing. I have to wonder if this has been reported by hackers
and warez users and no perhaps by legitimate customers ? I am asking
you, not accusing you, I just want to know where this originated.

- --

Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD)

iD8DBQFAOgoc1p0e3NXsrtERAmQvAJ9pFrXHyL9dfnFsYecY/P7RjwdTcgCfTIZF
3HeIwpRAwWZEPnDxpJQiiFY=
=5nYI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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Old February 23rd 04, 03:58 PM
Euclid
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 or Fritz 8

P.S. I have both the legit CD and crack copies of Shredder, as well as most
Chessbase engines. They're readily available here on this newsgroup. There's
no reason to hide one's head in the sand about that basic fact. It's true.
Anyone who wants any of the engines can have them for free. Or they can buy
them. Or they can do both. It's their choice.

Some of the crack copies may have subtle built-in weaknesses, I don't know,
but seem to work generally OK. Reportedly some crack copies stop
generating/analyzing moves after the first 25 moves in a game, but I haven't
seen that. Personally I feel more confident about using the legit copies,
because they should work OK (without those uncertainties). However in the
case of Shredder 7/8, this particular analysis bug is built into the legit
copy too~*!?


"Euclid" wrote in message
ink.net...
It is well known that Shredder 7/8 provides faulty analysis, frequently
giving away its queen, etc, i.e. "give-away chess". Because of this,
Shredder's analysis is worthless, unreliable beyond the 1st move. It seems
to be OK for the 1st move "pair". So your move with white and black's reply
(or vice versa) is apparently OK, but anything beyond that is subject to
this built in bug. It's not a matter for debate. It's not a matter of legit
vs crack copies. The author has admitted to it, and calls it a "feature"?!
It has been frequently discussed on CCC and mentioned on this NG
occasionally.

If you don't see this bug, maybe you aren't using infinite analysis mode, I
don't know. That's the only way I use Shredder, and I let it go for long
times doing its analysis chores. It finds the best (or a good) first move as
evidenced by its high rating (#1 in the world), but then the garbage begins.
Sometimes the analysis seems OK, but frequently it's pure garbage - no way
to predict.
--
Euclid

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote in message
anews.com...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Euclid wrote:

Which is better? It depends on your application. If you want to do

analysis,
get Fritz 8, because the Shredder 8 analysis is very buggy. It likes to

play
"give away chess" when providing analysis. However my guess is that

Shredder
8 is stronger by 50-100 Elo points.


Can you explain this point about "Give Away" chess? I have not seen it
do such a thing. I have to wonder if this has been reported by hackers
and warez users and no perhaps by legitimate customers ? I am asking
you, not accusing you, I just want to know where this originated.

- --

Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD)

iD8DBQFAOgoc1p0e3NXsrtERAmQvAJ9pFrXHyL9dfnFsYecY/P7RjwdTcgCfTIZF
3HeIwpRAwWZEPnDxpJQiiFY=
=5nYI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



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Old February 25th 04, 02:22 PM
Euclid
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 or Fritz 8


"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote in message
anews.com...
[snip]
Perhaps this is not a concern to you, but it is illegal to own cracked
software, even if you legitimately own the full retail version.
Altering the binaries or possessing them is enough for trouble should
you be caught.
_________________________

I suspected that might have been the motivation for your post, but decided
to give you the benefit of the doubt and replied candidly. I won't make the
same mistake twice - o great pricker of the consciences of the world - o
great keeper of the legal library - o great better than thou - adiós... )
--
Euclid



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Old February 25th 04, 02:40 PM
Euclid
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 or Fritz 8

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame61.html


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Old February 26th 04, 08:29 PM
Helge H. Forstner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shredder 8 or Fritz 8

Hello,

are Fritz or Shredder úsable for beginners?

Do they have the possibility to reduce the calculating strenght?
So an Non-Profi also has a chance?

I saw this in the description of Fritz, but does the Shredder have it
also?



with regards

H.H.Forstner
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