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Old February 22nd 04, 06:05 PM
Noah Roberts
 
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One of the required courses for my degree in computer science is yet
another writing course. I am expected to make some sort of technical
argument for a paper in this course and have chosen to argue the
importance of chess as a research platform for "real world" tasks. For
instance, research in pattern recognition has found its way into networking.

I could use some help finding citations. I know to look for stuff in
networking, I suppose the medical field would have gained some ground in
parallel processing research, but can't think of many other applications
even though I know there is bound to be some. What fields have gained
ground due to research in chess and related games?

If anyone can think of any particular document that would help me then
great, but I am really just looking for keywords to plug into database
searches and other clues to find good sources.

--
"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office
in foreign policy matters with war on my mind." - Bush

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Old February 22nd 04, 06:56 PM
Henri H. Arsenault
 
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:05:50 -0800, Noah Roberts
wrote:


I could use some help finding citations. I know to look for stuff in
networking, I suppose the medical field would have gained some ground in
parallel processing research, but can't think of many other applications
even though I know there is bound to be some. What fields have gained
ground due to research in chess and related games?

Recently there have been some academic theses written on computer
games and on their profound meaning, sort of a new kind of literary
analysis. Unfortunately I don't remember the sites, but they should
not be too hard to find, and they were discussed on one of these
forums a week or two ago.

The use of chess as a model of warfare has been much discussed over
the centuries, but again I can't recall any specific sources.

I would guess that looking under "game theory" should yield some
useful sources.

Henri
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Old March 1st 04, 07:39 PM
David
 
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:05:50 -0800, Noah Roberts
wrote:

One of the required courses for my degree in computer science is yet
another writing course. I am expected to make some sort of technical
argument for a paper in this course and have chosen to argue the
importance of chess as a research platform for "real world" tasks. For
instance, research in pattern recognition has found its way into networking.

I could use some help finding citations. I know to look for stuff in
networking, I suppose the medical field would have gained some ground in
parallel processing research, but can't think of many other applications
even though I know there is bound to be some. What fields have gained
ground due to research in chess and related games?

If anyone can think of any particular document that would help me then
great, but I am really just looking for keywords to plug into database
searches and other clues to find good sources.


Chess is just one example of a zero-sum game with a variety of rules
and employing tactics as much as strategy.

I believe most simulations of zero-sum activities, could use the same
method. For instance, firefighter experts use computer simulations to
anticipate and plan responses for various recurring wildfire
situations in Southern California.

To the extent that the fire advances quickly toward or into
populated/highly prized area's, is the extent that the firefighters
are losing. So, zero sum.

By running through simulations, they know when they see the real thing
how the fire is likely to behave after entering the temp, wind speed
and direction, humidity, etc. (or having real time feeds of that data
directly into the computer).

Doesn't always mean they can get the resources and the help from
Mother Nature to beat the fire, but it surely help them use the
resources they have, better.

Good luck,

dave



Meter by meter, life is sweeter - go metric, save millions, and take it easy.
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Old March 2nd 04, 12:57 PM
henri Arsenault
 
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In article ,
David wrote:

Chess is just one example of a zero-sum game with a variety of rules
and employing tactics as much as strategy.

I am not sure that chess is a zero-sum game. A zero-sum game is like
gamblinig, when the total amount of money for both players is a
constant, and what one loses is won by the other. In chess if you lose a
piece, it does not go to the opponent. If it is a zero-sum game, the
term corresponds to a sum of what?...

Henri
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Old March 2nd 04, 03:28 PM
Chris Ball
 
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On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:57:09 GMT, henri Arsenault said:

I am not sure that chess is a zero-sum game. A zero-sum game is
like gamblinig, when the total amount of money for both players
is a constant, and what one loses is won by the other. In chess
if you lose a piece, it does not go to the opponent. If it is a
zero-sum game, the term corresponds to a sum of what?...


You have the right idea, but are looking at the wrong granularity.
We measure the change in score per game, not per move; once you do
that, you can see that the points available are constant to each game
played, and you only win points through playing against an opponent
(and robbing her of her chance to win them instead, or sharing them).

- Chris.
--
Chris Ball http://www.mrao.cam.ac.uk/~cjb/
Inference Group: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/is/


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Old March 2nd 04, 05:42 PM
David Richerby
 
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henri Arsenault wrote:
David wrote:
Chess is just one example of a zero-sum game with a variety of rules
and employing tactics as much as strategy.


I am not sure that chess is a zero-sum game. A zero-sum game is like
gamblinig, when the total amount of money for both players is a
constant, and what one loses is won by the other. In chess if you lose
a piece, it does not go to the opponent. If it is a zero-sum game, the
term corresponds to a sum of what?...


It's zero sum in the sense that my loss is your gain: the disadvantage I
incur from being a piece down is exactly the same as the advantage my
opponent incurs from being that piece up.


Dave.

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www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ fashion statement that exists only in
your computer!
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Old March 2nd 04, 06:00 PM
Chris Ball
 
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On 02 Mar 2004, David Richerby said:

It's zero sum in the sense that my loss is your gain: the
disadvantage I incur from being a piece down is exactly the same
as the advantage my opponent incurs from being that piece up.


I think I disagree. You're giving the game a scoring structure that
doesn't exist in its rules, and isn't a true representation of the
state of the game; after, say, Qxh7+ Kxh7 with Rh3# to follow, you
(as black) don't have an objective advantage commensurate to the
`value' of my white queen.

I'd maintain that the zero-sum-ness of chess only applies to the
results of games. In-game methods of scoring are unreliable and
subjective.

- Chris.
--
Chris Ball http://www.mrao.cam.ac.uk/~cjb/
Inference Group: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/is/
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Old March 2nd 04, 06:52 PM
David Richerby
 
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Chris Ball wrote:
David Richerby said:
It's zero sum in the sense that my loss is your gain: the
disadvantage I incur from being a piece down is exactly the same
as the advantage my opponent incurs from being that piece up.


I think I disagree. You're giving the game a scoring structure that
doesn't exist in its rules, and isn't a true representation of the
state of the game; after, say, Qxh7+ Kxh7 with Rh3# to follow, you
(as black) don't have an objective advantage commensurate to the
`value' of my white queen.


Black's advantage in being a queen up sums to zero with White's
disadvantage in being a queen down; White's advantage of having just
won the game sums to zero with Black's disadvantage of having just
lost it. The second of these is more important, of course. To put it
another way, you're only looking at the positive terms of the sum,
negating those that are in Black's favour and finding that *that* sum
isn't zero.

The material consideration is just an approximation towards `Player
A's advantage in having a forced win is commensurate with Player B's
disadvantage in being forced to lose.'


Dave.

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www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ that exists only in your computer!
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Old March 2nd 04, 06:57 PM
Ed Seedhouse
 
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On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:57:09 GMT, henri Arsenault
wrote:

Chess is just one example of a zero-sum game with a variety of rules
and employing tactics as much as strategy.


I am not sure that chess is a zero-sum game. A zero-sum game is like
gamblinig, when the total amount of money for both players is a
constant, and what one loses is won by the other. In chess if you lose a
piece, it does not go to the opponent. If it is a zero-sum game, the
term corresponds to a sum of what?...


Zero sum refers to the outcome of a game, not what goes happens on the
board during the game. Chess is a zero sum game becuase in the end
one point is split beteen two players and nothing can happen that can
prevent that final outcome. The total score of both players is always
exactly one in chess as it is played today.

Ed
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Old March 2nd 04, 08:09 PM
David Richerby
 
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Ed Seedhouse wrote:
Chess is a zero sum game becuase in the end one point is split beteen
two players and nothing can happen that can prevent that final outcome.


I feel pedantically obliged to point out that, if both players have
cheated, a FIDE arbiter can decide to award both players no points.
I don't imagine that happens very often, though!


Dave.

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www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a single-malt whisky that comes from
Mexico but it's completely natural!
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