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Old March 3rd 04, 10:02 PM
Matthieu Leschemelle
 
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Default Problemist Shareware


Problemist is a Windows program entirely dedicated to the chess
problem:

- Solves orthodox chess problems: direct mates, helpmates, selfmates
from 2 up to 6 moves.
- Writes and prints the solutions with many options.
- Prints beautiful diagrams.
- Manages archives which can contain thousands of problems.
- And many other features (twins, searching of positions, etc...)
- PGN & EPD Import / Export.
- BDF & Alybadix Import.
- Problemiste supports French, English, Spanish, Italian, German,
Polish & Slovak languages.
- French, English, Italian and Spanish help files.
- Over 100000 problems available in Problemist format.

Problemist can be downloaded from :

http://www.problemist.com/


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Old July 12th 04, 12:05 AM
José de Paula
 
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Default Problemist Shareware

Em Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:02:53 +0100, Matthieu Leschemelle escreveu:


Problemist is a Windows program entirely dedicated to the chess
problem:



I was looking for such a software; will try it as soon as possible.
Too bad there is no version for Linux or *BSD, though.

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur

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Old July 12th 04, 06:11 AM
Joost de Heer
 
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Default Problemist Shareware

I was looking for such a software; will try it as soon as possible. Too bad
there is no version for Linux or *BSD, though.


For unix chess problem solving programs, try Popeye
(http://archiv.leo.org/pub/rec/games/popeye/)

Joost
--
Du hast mein Herz zerrissen, meine Seele geraubt
Das es so enden würde hätt` ich nie geglaubt [Aus der Ruinen -]
Ohne Rücksicht auf Verluste, hast Du meine Welt zerstört [L'Âme Immortelle]
Eine Welt, die vor kurzem nur uns beiden hat gehört
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Old July 12th 04, 10:05 AM
Anders Thulin
 
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Default Problemist Shareware

José de Paula wrote:

I was looking for such a software; will try it as soon as possible.
Too bad there is no version for Linux or *BSD, though.


Popeye is one well-know problem-solver, mainly because it supports an
absolutely bewildering number of unorthodox pieces and conditions.
(it doesn't document them, though -- you have to know what they mean.)

Chest by Heiner Marxen seems to be a pretty good orthodox solver --
I haven't used it as much as I've used Problemist, and so don't know
how far it can be trusted but it's useful for problem longer than
Problemist's limit of 5/6 moves.

--
Anders Thulin ath*algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~ath
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Old July 12th 04, 04:57 PM
Joost de Heer
 
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Default Problemist Shareware

Popeye is one well-know problem-solver, mainly because it supports an
absolutely bewildering number of unorthodox pieces and conditions. (it
doesn't document them, though -- you have to know what they mean.)


I'm working (slowly, slowly) on a slightly better documentation on pieces and
stipulations supported in Popeye. Some of the more exotic conditions are a bit
of a question for me too though, but that's the beauty of open source: You can
read the source to see what it does

Joost
--
Du hast mein Herz zerrissen, meine Seele geraubt
Das es so enden würde hätt` ich nie geglaubt [Aus der Ruinen -]
Ohne Rücksicht auf Verluste, hast Du meine Welt zerstört [L'Âme Immortelle]
Eine Welt, die vor kurzem nur uns beiden hat gehört


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Old July 12th 04, 05:07 PM
fhub
 
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Default Problemist Shareware

Anders Thulin wrote in message ...
José de Paula wrote:

I was looking for such a software; will try it as soon as possible.
Too bad there is no version for Linux or *BSD, though.


Popeye is one well-know problem-solver, mainly because it supports an
absolutely bewildering number of unorthodox pieces and conditions.
(it doesn't document them, though -- you have to know what they mean.)

Chest by Heiner Marxen seems to be a pretty good orthodox solver --
I haven't used it as much as I've used Problemist, and so don't know
how far it can be trusted but it's useful for problem longer than
Problemist's limit of 5/6 moves.


I really must laugh! :-))
Chest is only "pretty good", and you "don´t know how far it can be trusted"??

You really can believe me: you absolutely CAN trust the results of Chest,
and it´s not only ´pretty good´, but Chest is actually the best and fastest
matesolver for orthodox chess problems, whenever you want to be sure to
get the optimal (i.e. shortest) solution for a problem!

I only can invite you to make extensive tests comparing the solution times
of Chest for orthodox problems (of any mate depth!) with any other matesolver
(of course all of them in ´brute force´-mode, otherwise you´ll never be sure,
if you´ll have the shortest solution) - and I can guarantee:
you´ll never use any other program than Chest for matesolving! ;-)

Btw.: there´s a very comfortable UCI-interface for Chest (optimally working
under the fantastic freeware GUI ´Arena´), which is also extending the
capabilities of Chest by a lot of new and powerful features. This program
ChestUCI Ver.3.7 is written by me an can be downloaded under:

http://www.uciengines.de/UCI-Engines/Chest/chest.html

(There you can also find my UCI-interface for Popeye ...)

Best regards,
Franz.
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Old July 13th 04, 07:03 AM
Anders Thulin
 
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Default Problemist Shareware

Joost de Heer wrote:

of a question for me too though, but that's the beauty of open source: You can
read the source to see what it does


Provided that the person in question has the ability to study the source code,
has the time, and the motivation to sustain the effort of doing so. Neither
is negligible.

--
Anders Thulin ath*algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~ath
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Old July 13th 04, 08:39 AM
Anders Thulin
 
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Default Problemist Shareware

fhub wrote:

You really can believe me: you absolutely CAN trust the results of Chest,


You don't fully understand the concept of trust, I see. For how can I trust
*you* on this? I don't know you, and I don't know anyoone whose opinion about
you I would trust. Trust is something that must be earned, and that takes
time. I haven't spent that time on Chest yet.

Perhaps you misunderstood me: perhaps you thought I was saying that Chest
couldn't be trusted. I don't: at present, Chest is 'on probation' with me:
I have not found any serious bugs, but neither have I come to trust it, as
I've only worked with it a few months, and as there are a few glitches I
find disconcerting.

I trust Problemist: I've used it for more than five years to check the
solutions to a little more than 6000 problems. And I mean checked in detail:
I've gone over every variation in the published solution, and checked them for
errors.

I've found areas where I must be careful: Problemist does not handle the
last move in self-mates well -- it omits to indicate if checks are involved.
And there are circumstances in which solutions are truncated, but on the
other hand it warns when that happens. And I know that it makes certain
contractions in solutions that can lead to ambiguity in rare cases. These
glitches don't affect my work seriously. Yes, I trust Problemist, based on
this fairly extensive experience with it.

At present I'm trying out Chest for finding badly cooked problems: the
main reason is that it's a batch solver, so I can leave it overnight, and
it is not limited to 5/6 move problems that Problemist is. The most important
problem I've found so far is that it won't tell me if the key move(s) are
checking or not. This is a bit disconcerting.

So, tell me again, why should I trust *you*? How extensive and detailed
tests have you made with Chest? On what do you base *your* trust in Chest?

It would probably be unfair not to try to state what I would require from a
trustworthy problem-solver.

The main thing is, of course, that it must produce the same solutions as some
other, preferrably trusted, solver. To some extent this test could be done over
some standard collection of problems (such as the relevant FIDE Album problems),
to ensure there are no major bugs. But to a certain extent it must also be done
over a collection I select, to ensure that at least some part of the material is
unfamiliar territory, as well that unusual cases are tested. The solutions must
be complete, in all details (including set and try play), including check and
mate indications. Any differences is solutions indicate a problem that must be
investigated.

That would go a long way towards establishing a basis for trust.

In case anyone else wonders why I haven't done that, it simple: solutions
from different engines can't easily be compared automatically. Chest outputs
solutions in its own (undocumented) format, and they have to be massaged into
some standard form in order to be compared with, say, solutions from Popeye,
which also will have to be massaged in a similar way. In the case of Problemist,
there are further problems: it doesn't do batch solving, and doesn't output to
file but to a Windows text area, so automatic solving of a batch of test cases
will be tricky. Additionally, ordering the variations into some standard order
would help in making a comparison easier to perform, although it is not
strictly required.

I've started planning such a test, but it's not a high-priority activity, as
I already have trusted tools for what I regard as my main work.

I only can invite you to make extensive tests comparing the solution times
of Chest for orthodox problems


Solving time is entirely unimportant if the trustworthyness of a solving engine
is in question. It's a very important consideration if the question is if
the solver is useful, but that comes second. If I don't trust the solver to
be correct, it doesn't matter how useful or fast it appears to be. Indeed, the
faster it is claimed to be, the more reason to suspect it may take shortcuts in
the solving process, and perhaps not produce 100% complete solutions under
all circumstances.

--
Anders Thulin ath*algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~ath
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