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Old March 4th 04, 03:46 PM
Ray Gordon
 
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Default Copyrighting Of Chess Games

Are there any REALLY strong players who want this to happen?

If so, I'd be willing to hold a tournament and claim copyright to the games,
meaning that the players would get the revenue from the tournament e-book
(after my cut, of course), and the copyright would be enforced against
anyone who published the moves of the games (or positions) with any mention
of the players or the event.

This would be the correct way to resolve the issue. I would imagine that if
someone did this with a big tournament, the book from that tournament would
generate some decent sales.

Ideally, this tournament should consist of at least eight players from the
top 100 list.



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Old March 4th 04, 07:18 PM
KidDon
 
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Default Copyrighting Of Chess Games

"Ray Gordon" wrote in message .. .
Are there any REALLY strong players who want this to happen?

If so, I'd be willing to hold a tournament and claim copyright to the games,
meaning that the players would get the revenue from the tournament e-book
(after my cut, of course), and the copyright would be enforced against
anyone who published the moves of the games (or positions) with any mention
of the players or the event.

This would be the correct way to resolve the issue. I would imagine that if
someone did this with a big tournament, the book from that tournament would
generate some decent sales.

Ideally, this tournament should consist of at least eight players from the
top 100 list.


___________________________
We've been over this before. The moves of the games (or positions),
even with mention of the players or the event, are not copyrightable.

see, e.g. http://www.ernietheattorney.net/erni...orting_ev.html

Kiddon
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Old March 4th 04, 07:38 PM
Ray Gordon
 
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Default Copyrighting Of Chess Games

That's a boxscore.

A chess score is more like a filming.

--
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The Seduction Library

http://www.cybersheet.com/hotties.html
Why Hotties Choose Losers


"KidDon" wrote in message
om...
"Ray Gordon" wrote in message

.. .
Are there any REALLY strong players who want this to happen?

If so, I'd be willing to hold a tournament and claim copyright to the

games,
meaning that the players would get the revenue from the tournament

e-book
(after my cut, of course), and the copyright would be enforced against
anyone who published the moves of the games (or positions) with any

mention
of the players or the event.

This would be the correct way to resolve the issue. I would imagine

that if
someone did this with a big tournament, the book from that tournament

would
generate some decent sales.

Ideally, this tournament should consist of at least eight players from

the
top 100 list.


___________________________
We've been over this before. The moves of the games (or positions),
even with mention of the players or the event, are not copyrightable.

see, e.g.

http://www.ernietheattorney.net/erni...orting_ev.html

Kiddon



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Old March 4th 04, 08:10 PM
David Richerby
 
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Default Copyrighting Of Chess Games

[ -- rgc.misc and rgc.politics ]

KidDon wrote:
"Ray Gordon" wrote:
Are there any REALLY strong players who want this to happen?


We've been over this before. The moves of the games (or positions),
even with mention of the players or the event, are not copyrightable.

see, e.g. http://www.ernietheattorney.net/erni...orting_ev.html


I don't think that's a very good reference as chess obviously isn't an
athletic sport.


Dave.

--
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no moving parts and you can see right
through it!
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Old March 5th 04, 12:46 AM
Kenneth Sloan
 
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Default Copyrighting Of Chess Games

"Ray Gordon" writes:

Are there any REALLY strong players who want this to happen?

If so, I'd be willing to hold a tournament and claim copyright to the games,
meaning that the players would get the revenue from the tournament e-book
(after my cut, of course), and the copyright would be enforced against
anyone who published the moves of the games (or positions) with any mention
of the players or the event.

This would be the correct way to resolve the issue.


What "issue"? Does anyone really believe that your "claim" of copyright
has any chance of being upheld? It contradicts both the general
principles, and the specific cases, that I am aware of dealing with
copyright.

...


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Computer and Information Sciences (205) 934-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX (205) 934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
http://www.cis.uab.edu/info/faculty/sloan/


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Old March 5th 04, 12:50 AM
richard kennedy
 
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Default Copyrighting Of Chess Games

Although I doubt that it would be possible to copyright the games
under the situation you describe - it would be at least
"theoretically" possible to have a tournament with top players where
each signed a non-discolsure agreement. If there were enough security,
and the chess players (and support staff) didn't weasel out, it would
be theoretically possible to embargo the games until your book of the
tournament came out (with great annotations, I hope). Then you would
at least have a chance to turn a buck before someone bought a copy of
the book and then put the naked games on the internet...

I believe there have been one or two matches in the past where the two
players (much easier with 2) agreed to only let the moves be revealed
to a paid news source - newspaper, I think. It made for a few more
bucks for the players, not a whole heck of a lot, of course.

But: imagine if Fischer and Karpov had reached an agreement in the
early 1980s to settle that World Championship thing in private - with
the moves only being released when their jointly annotated book came
out? That might have been interesting, even if it skirted (or cratered
on) the copyright issue.

Rick
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Old March 5th 04, 04:05 AM
Simon Waters
 
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Default Copyrighting Of Chess Games

Ray Gordon wrote:
That's a boxscore.

A chess score is more like a filming.


Ah but whatever director you use you get the same unannotated score...

Now if all your films started the same way - I have a guy called Ruy
Lopez here and he is claiming a rather fantastic amounts of money for
derivative works plus compound interest still owing from the 16th century.

I think the filming analogy is pretty flimsy.

There might be a case for joint ownership of games by the players
involved, but it would not be good for the sport, and I think it is
troubled.

What if they wittingly or unwittingly two players repeated the exact
moves of a more famous game? Or even the exact opening till a critical
mistake (maybe one of the players couldn't afford to buy the rights to
see the previous mistake). What if an annotator mentions this repetition?

The "REALLY strong" players make a good living under the current scheme.

I dare say Kasparov managed to sell plenty of copies of his games
collection (My Games) even though many of the games were unannotated
(and thus probably not subject to copyright). Had a joint copyright
existed he'd have to have asked the permission of hundreds of opponents
- many of whom lost - hmmm - I can imagine that conversation.

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Old March 5th 04, 08:36 AM
Mikko Nummelin
 
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Default Copyrighting Of Chess Games

About copyrighting chess games, I'll describe the situation in Finland.
The games itself cannot be considered such artistic products which could
be copyrighted. There are also some regulations from chess organizations
that some official tournament games must be made public. What can be
copyrighted, are significant derivative work from a chess game or a bunch
of them. If you for example analyze thoroughly a dozen of GM level games
and publish a book with your analyzis comments, the product is of course
considered under copyright laws. The same holds if you assemble opening
databases from a large number of games by hand or with your own
proprietary generation tools.

Summary: It is very difficult to make money with chess or chess products
unless you are professional in either playing, problem solving or
chess-programming or even the better, in many of those areas. There are
nowadays so much free and open resources in the Internet for chess
literature and knowledge.


Mikko Nummelin
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Old March 6th 04, 08:12 AM
Terry
 
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Default Copyrighting Of Chess Games

You are a pain in the arse when posting these attachments.

Regards

"Simon Waters" wrote in message
...


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