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-   -   Please Help Guy Macon with his Tablebase Size Estimates (https://www.chessbanter.com/rec-games-chess-computer-computer-chess/28858-please-help-guy-macon-his-tablebase-size-estimates.html)

Guy Macon June 22nd 07 03:03 PM

Please Help Guy Macon with his Tablebase Size Estimates
 



Does anyone here have a better estimate than the following?

Complete 3 man Nalimov Tablebase.................80 kB (measured)
Complete 3+4 man Nalimov Tablebase...............30 MB (measured)
Complete 3+4+5 man Nalimov Tablebase............7.5 GB (measured)
"Complete" 3+4+5+6 man Nalimov Tablebase........1.146 TB (measured)[1]
Complete 3+4+5+6+7 man Nalimov Tablebase....200-600 TB (estimated)
Complete 3+4+5+6+7+8 man Nalimov Tablebase...40-180 PB (estimated)
[...]
Complete 3+4+5+6+[...]+30+31+32 man Nalimov tablebase...[UNKNOWN]

All sizes are for Nalimov Tablebases using standard compression.

(Note 1: As of this writing, nobody has bothered making tablesbases
for positions where a single king faces five pieces. It's hard to
imagine a non-stalemated 5 vs. 1 position where a computer can't
find a quick win without consulting a tablebase.)

I welcome any estimates that are better than the ones above, and
I especially welcome anyone who has the courage to give me an
estimate to replace the [UNKNOWN] above. I would also very much
like some data on how long it takes/took to generate each set.
-Guy Macon

------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, Here is a handy reference for expressing large numbers:

k kilo- 1.0E+3 x1,000 Thousand(US,UK)
M mega- 1.0E+6 x1,000,000 Million (US,UK)
G giga- 1.0E+9 x1,000,000,000 Billion(US)
T tera- 1.0E+12 x1,000,000,000,000 Trillion(US), Billion(UK)
P peta- 1.0E+15 x1,000,000,000,000,000 Quadrillion(US)
E exa- 1.0E+18 x1,000,000,000,000,000,000 Quintillion(US), Trillion(UK)
Z zetta- 1.0E+21 x1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Sextillion(US)
Y yotta- 1.0E+24 x1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Septillion(US), Quadrillion(UK)

Note: vendeka, xenna, xenno, and vendeko are bogus.
Before you try using them, please read these pages:
[ http://home.att.net/~numericana/answer/units.htm#prefix ]
[ http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/prefixes.html ]
[ http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html ]


G o o g l e F o o d : http://www.guymacon.com http://www.guymacon.com/
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Guy Macon Guy Macon Guy Macon Guy Macon Guy Macon Guy Macon Guy Macon Guy Macon


Jud McCranie June 22nd 07 06:47 PM

Please Help Guy Macon with his Tablebase Size Estimates
 
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:03:18 +0000, Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:

"Complete" 3+4+5+6 man Nalimov Tablebase........1.146 TB (measured)[1]


We are to the point where we could have this on a PC, but there is no
feasible distribution of it that I know of.
--
Replace you know what by j to email

Jud McCranie June 22nd 07 10:35 PM

Please Help Guy Macon with his Tablebase Size Estimates
 
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:03:18 +0000, Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:

(Note 1: As of this writing, nobody has bothered making tablesbases
for positions where a single king faces five pieces. It's hard to
imagine a non-stalemated 5 vs. 1 position where a computer can't
find a quick win without consulting a tablebase.)


That should apply to a lot of 4 vs 2 also, for instance QQQ vs. N,
etc.
--
Replace you know what by j to email

Tony M June 23rd 07 01:01 AM

Please Help Guy Macon with his Tablebase Size Estimates
 
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:03:18 +0000, Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:


(Note 1: As of this writing, nobody has bothered making tablesbases
for positions where a single king faces five pieces. It's hard to
imagine a non-stalemated 5 vs. 1 position where a computer can't
find a quick win without consulting a tablebase.)


5 vs. 1 tablebases have been created, but not in Nalimov format.
Unfortunately, the code provided by Nalimov cannot as yet handle 5 vs
1 tablebases. You may want to check the CCRL tablebase forum for more
info.

http://kd.lab.nig.ac.jp/chess/discus...wforum.php?f=6

Tony

Engineer June 23rd 07 05:52 PM

Please Help Guy Macon with his Tablebase Size Estimates
 



Tony M wrote:

Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:

(Note 1: As of this writing, nobody has bothered making tablesbases
for positions where a single king faces five pieces. It's hard to
imagine a non-stalemated 5 vs. 1 position where a computer can't
find a quick win without consulting a tablebase.)


5 vs. 1 tablebases have been created, but not in Nalimov format.
Unfortunately, the code provided by Nalimov cannot as yet handle 5 vs
1 tablebases. You may want to check the CCRL tablebase forum for more
info.

http://kd.lab.nig.ac.jp/chess/discus...wforum.php?f=6


Interesting! I will dig deeper later today.

Do you by any chance know the size (in any format) with and without
the 5 vs. 1 tablebases?


Tony M June 28th 07 06:41 AM

Please Help Guy Macon with his Tablebase Size Estimates
 
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:52:24 +0000, Engineer
wrote:




Tony M wrote:

Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:

(Note 1: As of this writing, nobody has bothered making tablesbases
for positions where a single king faces five pieces. It's hard to
imagine a non-stalemated 5 vs. 1 position where a computer can't
find a quick win without consulting a tablebase.)


5 vs. 1 tablebases have been created, but not in Nalimov format.
Unfortunately, the code provided by Nalimov cannot as yet handle 5 vs
1 tablebases. You may want to check the CCRL tablebase forum for more
info.

http://kd.lab.nig.ac.jp/chess/discus...wforum.php?f=6


Interesting! I will dig deeper later today.

Do you by any chance know the size (in any format) with and without
the 5 vs. 1 tablebases?


http://kd.lab.nig.ac.jp/chess/tablebases-online/ lists the sizes of
each individual tablebase file in Nalimov format. I'm not sure about
the sizes in Chessmaster FEG format.

Tony


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