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Old March 11th 04, 02:10 AM
Angelo DePalma
 
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Default Best way to handicap Shredder


I own the latest Shredder, which uses the Fritz interface. My question is:
What is the best way to handicap the computer so it plays a reasonably solid
2200-level game? How about 2100? After using these programs for years I've
concluded that the rating levels in the handicapping modes are crap. The
computer will play like a GM for 10 moves, then blunder. Or if it's set too
low it just makes blunders every move.

I was trying to give it just 2 seconds per move and that came close to
playing solidly, but not spectacularly.

Ideas?

Angelo


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Old March 11th 04, 02:16 AM
Josť de Paula
 
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Default Best way to handicap Shredder

Em Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:10:30 -0500, Angelo DePalma escreveu:


Don't come afterwards with "I BEAT SHREDDER ITSELF"...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur

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Old March 11th 04, 03:30 AM
Derek Wildstar
 
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Default Best way to handicap Shredder


"Angelo DePalma" wrote in message
...

I own the latest Shredder, which uses the Fritz interface. My question is:
What is the best way to handicap the computer so it plays a reasonably

solid
2200-level game? How about 2100? After using these programs for years I've
concluded that the rating levels in the handicapping modes are crap. The
computer will play like a GM for 10 moves, then blunder. Or if it's set

too
low it just makes blunders every move.

I was trying to give it just 2 seconds per move and that came close to
playing solidly, but not spectacularly.

Ideas?

Angelo


Disable book, pondering, and set it to 5 seconds a move. Works great for
that level.


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Old March 11th 04, 10:41 AM
David Richerby
 
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Default Best way to handicap Shredder

Derek Wildstar wrote:
"Angelo DePalma" wrote:
I own the latest Shredder, which uses the Fritz interface. My question
is: What is the best way to handicap the computer so it plays a
reasonably solid 2200-level game? How about 2100?


Disable book, pondering, and set it to 5 seconds a move. Works great for
that level.


Of course, the length of time per move is heavily dependent on the
computer Shredder is running on. I'd worry that disabling the book would
be good training for the sort of position Shredder thinks is a good
opening rather than the sort of position that's necessarily likely to come
up in a real game. On the other hand, I suppose a 2200 player should
be able to recognize the similarities and differences between these
kinds of position. :-)


Dave.

--
David Richerby Broken Fluorescent Atlas (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a map of the world but it'll hurt
your eyes and it doesn't work!
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Old March 11th 04, 09:37 PM
Derek Wildstar
 
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Default Best way to handicap Shredder


"David Richerby" wrote in message
...

Of course, the length of time per move is heavily dependent on the
computer Shredder is running on. I'd worry that disabling the book would
be good training for the sort of position Shredder thinks is a good
opening rather than the sort of position that's necessarily likely to come
up in a real game. On the other hand, I suppose a 2200 player should
be able to recognize the similarities and differences between these
kinds of position. :-)


Aye, Under those conditions, I'd have Shredder play as Black, so as to keep
the opening variety under white's discretion.

With Shredder as White under those conditions...you better like queenside
play, cuz that seems to be the preference.

Curious as to why the OP just doesn't add time per move until he finds a
happy medium, or the self adapting friend mode, that works nice as well.









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Old March 12th 04, 03:17 AM
Angelo DePalma
 
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Default Best way to handicap Shredder


I'm not crazy about "Friend" mode. I don't trust it. Plus I don't feel like
playing the dozens of games it might take the computer to assess my average
play. At any rate the documentation in this terrific program is so bad, it's
hard to tell which mode is optimal for training. "Friends and Neighbors?"
"Sparring"? Assassin? Who knows. THey would have done better simply to put
in an old 1800-strength engine, 2000-strength, 2200, etc. You would think
after all these years of computer chess that CB would have figured this one
out and made it simple to use.

Angelo


"Derek Wildstar" wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s04...

"David Richerby" wrote in message
...

Of course, the length of time per move is heavily dependent on the
computer Shredder is running on. I'd worry that disabling the book

would
be good training for the sort of position Shredder thinks is a good
opening rather than the sort of position that's necessarily likely to

come
up in a real game. On the other hand, I suppose a 2200 player should
be able to recognize the similarities and differences between these
kinds of position. :-)


Aye, Under those conditions, I'd have Shredder play as Black, so as to

keep
the opening variety under white's discretion.

With Shredder as White under those conditions...you better like queenside
play, cuz that seems to be the preference.

Curious as to why the OP just doesn't add time per move until he finds a
happy medium, or the self adapting friend mode, that works nice as well.









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Old March 12th 04, 05:51 AM
Mogath3
 
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Default Best way to handicap Shredder

I own the latest Shredder, which uses the Fritz interface. My question is:
What is the best way to handicap the computer so it plays a reasonably solid
2200-level game? How about 2100? After using these programs for years I've
concluded that the rating levels in the handicapping modes are crap. The
computer will play like a GM for 10 moves, then blunder. Or if it's set too
low it just makes blunders every move.


Maybe you should consider playing a weaker engine. I know the new ones are
loaded with features. One of the ones that is NOT on an older one is the option
to save a game as a pgn file, but then that doesn't really matter because when
I play the really old ones, I just write down the moves on a pad anyway. I like
to play against CM 3000 or Sargon 5 or Fritz 3. SOME times I get a win, but
most times I get whacked, unless I play CM 3000. I seem to do well against that
every now and then.

Regards,
Jeff



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Old March 12th 04, 09:16 AM
David Richerby
 
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Default Best way to handicap Shredder

Derek Wildstar wrote:
Curious as to why the OP just doesn't add time per move until he finds a
happy medium, or the self adapting friend mode, that works nice as well.


I find friend mode with Fritz 8 to be appalling -- I don't know if
Shredder is any better. Fritz will play like a grandmaster until it
obtains an advantage measurable in a whole number of pawns and then
blunder enough pawns or pieces to even up the score again. Oh look,
it's at +5 -- wonder which rook it'll leave hanging this time? Maybe
friend mode works better for stronger players than me who don't go
whole pieces down but still don't want to play a GM-strength opponent.
For me, though, it's a complete waste of time.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Mentholated Tool (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ screwdriver but it's invigorating!
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Old March 16th 04, 04:01 AM
Mark
 
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Default Best way to handicap Shredder

Someone here mentioned a few months back that Fritz played much closer to
the elo level you set if you play a rated game. I tried it, and was very
pleasantly surprised.

Don't know if it will be the same with Shredder, but it's probably worth a
try.

Mark


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Old March 18th 04, 11:39 AM
matt -`;'-
 
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Default Best way to handicap Shredder


"Mogath3" wrote in message
...
I own the latest Shredder, which uses the Fritz interface. My question

is:
What is the best way to handicap the computer so it plays a reasonably

solid
2200-level game? How about 2100? After using these programs for years

I've
concluded that the rating levels in the handicapping modes are crap. The
computer will play like a GM for 10 moves, then blunder. Or if it's set

too
low it just makes blunders every move.


Maybe you should consider playing a weaker engine. I know the new ones are
loaded with features. One of the ones that is NOT on an older one is the

option
to save a game as a pgn file, but then that doesn't really matter because

when
I play the really old ones, I just write down the moves on a pad anyway. I

like
to play against CM 3000 or Sargon 5 or Fritz 3. SOME times I get a win,

but
most times I get whacked, unless I play CM 3000. I seem to do well against

that
every now and then.

Regards,
Jeff



Hehe, I have Sargon4 and its amazing how strong it plays. I kind of collect
chess engines and I found that I like Deep Sjeng a lot for playing a
challenging game against because it has some decent playing levels.
Essentially they have it setup so you play against different computer
players that range from amatuer, semi-pro, pro, GM's and others. I have
been playing my way up the ranks and am working out the moves against the
Pro player. I like the way it plays it good game of chess even at the lower
levels. It doesn't give up strategy at the lower levels, but it will not
kill you like a 2800 ELO player either at the lower players. But if you do
want the power of Kaparov, he is in there along with Tal, Alekhine, Fischer
and others. You can make your own customer players also. This is exactly
what I was looking for in a chess program and I am glad I got it. -matt



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