Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old August 6th 07, 07:17 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Aug 2007
Posts: 6
Default Recommendations sought for a certain type of chess program

I would like a chess computer program that takes famous chess matches
and narrates them in a tutorial sense. Ideally, I'd love one that
started with very old chess matches and went forward. Possibly sort
of a history of the development of chess. I liked how the chess
matches at the end of "Game Over: Kasparov and the Machine" were done
and am hoping to find a program that is similar to that one. Are
there any programs out there that do this? If so, recommendations
please.

Thanks in advance!

Scott

  #2   Report Post  
Old August 6th 07, 11:49 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Sep 2006
Posts: 28
Default Recommendations sought for a certain type of chess program

Actually, to get this done properly I would recommend two programs.
Fritz 10 is pretty good at annotating games. However Rybka 2.3.2a is
the strongest and most reliable chess engine around. So if analytic
accuracy is most important you would rely on the latter, but for
features you can't beat Fritz. Use both and you get a double-edged
point of view.

  #3   Report Post  
Old August 7th 07, 09:51 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,598
Default Recommendations sought for a certain type of chess program

wrote:
STJensen wrote:
I would like a chess computer program that takes famous chess
matches and narrates them in a tutorial sense. Ideally, I'd love
one that


Actually, to get this done properly I would recommend two programs.
Fritz 10 is pretty good at annotating games. However Rybka 2.3.2a is
the strongest and most reliable chess engine around.


This is not what the original poster is looking for. Computers
annotate with little better than, ``If he'd played 29.Rxe7 Rxe7
30.Bc3, his position would be 0.31 pawns better.'' This is not
``narrating in a tutorial sense.'' Chessmaster comes with some games
that have been annotated by strong human players. I'm not sure how
many or how good.

I'm not aware of any chess programs that do what you're looking for,
Scott. I'd recommend you get some good books of games and go through
them but I realise that's not quite the same thing. Depending on your
level, I'd suggest (in roughly increasing order of `difficulty')

Chernev: Logical Chess, Move by Move
Chernev: The Most Instructive Games of Chess ever Played
A book of Capablanca's games
Alekhine (with Nunn and Alexander): Alexander Alekhine's Best Games
Fischer's 60 best games (aaargh, can't remember the exact title)

Bronstein's book on the Zurich candidates' tournament is also highly
recommended by many, though I've not seen it myself.

Now, none of the books I've suggested actually deal with matches. But
most matches contain several dull games that can usefully be skipped.
``Best games'' selections, by construction, tend not to. :-)


Dave.

--
David Richerby Poisonous Frozen Chair (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a chair but it's frozen in a block of
ice and it'll kill you in seconds!
  #4   Report Post  
Old August 7th 07, 01:30 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,015
Default Recommendations sought for a certain type of chess program

On Aug 7, 9:51 am, David Richerby
wrote:
wrote:
STJensen wrote:
I would like a chess computer program that takes famous chess
matches and narrates them in a tutorial sense. Ideally, I'd love
one that


Actually, to get this done properly I would recommend two programs.
Fritz 10 is pretty good at annotating games. However Rybka 2.3.2a is
the strongest and most reliable chess engine around.


This is not what the original poster is looking for. Computers
annotate with little better than, ``If he'd played 29.Rxe7 Rxe7
30.Bc3, his position would be 0.31 pawns better.'' This is not
``narrating in a tutorial sense.''


The latest generation of engines under the chessbase interface will
annotate games leaving puzzle gaps for training and make a stab at
doing natural language annotation. I don't like the results at all -
too verbose but YMMV.

I prefer to use blundercheck under Shredder10 or Rybka 2.3 at a
moderately deep level and then look though the interesting lines it
finds. It will reliably find quite deep tactical lines and
improvements - where it is lacking are in the positional aspects. At
present only a human GM can do that.

I'm not aware of any chess programs that do what you're looking for,


Human annotation for tutoring chess is beyond current computer
programs. Although beyond a certain strength the engines become useful
again as sounding boards to examine and refute speculative moves.

Regards,
Martin Brown

  #5   Report Post  
Old August 7th 07, 02:55 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,598
Default Recommendations sought for a certain type of chess program

Martin Brown wrote:
David Richerby wrote:
This is not what the original poster is looking for. Computers
annotate with little better than, ``If he'd played 29.Rxe7 Rxe7
30.Bc3, his position would be 0.31 pawns better.'' This is not
``narrating in a tutorial sense.''


The latest generation of engines under the chessbase interface will
annotate games leaving puzzle gaps for training and make a stab at
doing natural language annotation.


The training puzzles are good, yes. (As you're replaying the game, it
will stop and ask you to work out the next move at critical points.)
The natural language annotations of Fritz 8, at least were awful.
Ooooh, Black's played ...f5 in the King's Indian: ``The typical
lever.'' And if it isn't a typical lever, it's ``Taking control of
g4.'' And if it doesn't do anything at all, it ``Doesn't get the bull
off the nice.'' No thanks. (Maybe it's improved in more recent
versions?)


I prefer to use blundercheck under Shredder10 or Rybka 2.3 at a
moderately deep level and then look though the interesting lines it
finds. It will reliably find quite deep tactical lines and
improvements - where it is lacking are in the positional aspects. At
present only a human GM can do that.


Yes, engines are very good at that kind of thing. The other thing
they're good for is that, when you're playing through a game and you
can't see why a certain move wasn't played, the engine will usually
show you just how quickly it drops a piece. :-)


I'm not aware of any chess programs that do what you're looking
for


Human annotation for tutoring chess is beyond current computer
programs.


Yes. But I don't think the OP was looking for a program that would
annotate games -- I think he was looking for a program that would
display pre-annotated games. Perhaps Chessbase has some training CDs
with that kind of stuff on it but it just isn't my area of knowledge.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Impossible Love Tongs (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a pair of tongs that you can
share with someone special but it
can't exist!


  #6   Report Post  
Old August 7th 07, 03:50 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Aug 2006
Posts: 157
Default Recommendations sought for a certain type of chess program

STJensen wrote:
I would like a chess computer program that takes famous chess matches
and narrates them in a tutorial sense. Ideally, I'd love one that
started with very old chess matches and went forward. Possibly sort
of a history of the development of chess.


You can find any number of programs that tries to do this, but
you'll also find that there's nothing to beat the human brain --
annotation is not something computer programs are particularly good at.

(I think is more .misc than .computer...)

Try the book '500 Master Games of Chess' by Tartakower & Du Mont.

--
Anders Thulin anders*thulin.name http://www.anders.thulin.name/
  #7   Report Post  
Old August 7th 07, 07:40 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2007
Posts: 188
Default Recommendations sought for a certain type of chess program

STJensen wrote:
I would like a chess computer program that takes famous chess matches
and narrates them in a tutorial sense. Ideally, I'd love one that
started with very old chess matches and went forward. Possibly sort
of a history of the development of chess. I liked how the chess
matches at the end of "Game Over: Kasparov and the Machine" were done
and am hoping to find a program that is similar to that one. Are
there any programs out there that do this? If so, recommendations
please.

Thanks in advance!


If you purchase any of the chessbase programs. (some can be had very
cheap online $20.00) you get a 1 year license to playchess.

With that, you can look at all sorts of important games that have been
annotated and visible through the chessbase interface. Where you can
stop the show, and play with the position using your favorite UCI engine
to give you some background.

It is a great way to bridge the gap between the two worlds.
  #8   Report Post  
Old August 7th 07, 09:24 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Aug 2007
Posts: 6
Default Recommendations sought for a certain type of chess program

David Richerby wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:
David Richerby wrote:
I'm not aware of any chess programs that do what you're looking
for


Human annotation for tutoring chess is beyond current computer
programs.


Yes. But I don't think the OP was looking for a program that would
annotate games -- I think he was looking for a program that would
display pre-annotated games. Perhaps Chessbase has some
training CDs with that kind of stuff on it but it just isn't my area of
knowledge.


Yes, that's what I am seeking. Given what has been said in this
thread, I guess what I should seek is just some DVDs where a grand
master(s) narrate famous chess matches. As suggested by Anders
Thulin, I will post this changed request to rec.games.chess.misc for
that. I will title it there "Recommendations sought for DVDs of
narration of famous chess matches".

Thanks for all the replies!

Scott

  #9   Report Post  
Old August 10th 07, 04:59 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2007
Posts: 188
Default Recommendations sought for a certain type of chess program

STJensen wrote:
I would like a chess computer program that takes famous chess matches
and narrates them in a tutorial sense. Ideally, I'd love one that
started with very old chess matches and went forward. Possibly sort
of a history of the development of chess. I liked how the chess
matches at the end of "Game Over: Kasparov and the Machine" were done
and am hoping to find a program that is similar to that one. Are
there any programs out there that do this? If so, recommendations
please.

Thanks in advance!

Scott

Here is a brand new series that I was just emailed about, I do not
personally know about their quality, but the reviewers are of good pedigree.

http://store.convekta.com/shop_model...og#product1429

  #10   Report Post  
Old August 14th 07, 06:18 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Aug 2007
Posts: 6
Default Recommendations sought for a certain type of chess program

JohnnyT wrote:
STJensen wrote:
I would like a chess computer program that takes famous chess matches
and narrates them in a tutorial sense. Ideally, I'd love one that
started with very old chess matches and went forward. Possibly sort
of a history of the development of chess. I liked how the chess
matches at the end of "Game Over: Kasparov and the Machine" were done
and am hoping to find a program that is similar to that one. Are
there any programs out there that do this? If so, recommendations
please.


Here is a brand new series that I was just emailed about, I do not
personally know about their quality, but the reviewers are of good pedigree.

http://store.convekta.com/shop_model...Catalog#produc...


This looks like it might be it. Anyone used any of them? If so, I
would appreciate reviews. :-)

Scott

Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
rec.games.chess.misc FAQ [2/4] [email protected] rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 0 May 8th 06 05:24 AM
rec.games.chess.misc FAQ [2/4] [email protected] rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 0 April 23rd 06 05:21 AM
rec.games.chess.misc FAQ [2/4] [email protected] rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 0 April 7th 06 05:30 AM
rec.games.chess.misc FAQ [2/4] [email protected] rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 0 February 19th 06 05:44 AM
rec.games.chess.misc FAQ [2/4] [email protected] rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 0 October 19th 05 05:37 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:25 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 ChessBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Chess"

 

Copyright © 2017