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Old August 16th 07, 08:40 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Turing engine

Is turing engine in any rating list, like ssdf? Has anybody tried it
against a wide variety of opponents to estimate its elo?

Is there anywhere in the web more info about how it works?

Thanks

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Old August 17th 07, 12:40 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Turing engine

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:43:12 GMT, Tony M wrote:


The chessbase page that has the Turing download has an explanation of
Turing.
http://www.chessbase.com/download/download2.asp

Tony


This link didn't seem to work for me when I revisited it. Try
http://www.chessbase.com/download/index.asp

and then select Engines from the drop down list and click the select
program button.

Tony
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Old August 17th 07, 08:45 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Alan Turing's Chess program (was: Turing engine)




wrote:

Is turing engine in any rating list, like ssdf? Has anybody tried it
against a wide variety of opponents to estimate its elo?

Is there anywhere in the web more info about how it works?


"Turing Engine" has another meaning. I suggest calling it
"Alan Turing's Chess Program" or "TurboChamp."

Nobody has tried it against other programs for the following
reasons:

[1]
Alan Turing's Chess program has been lost to history.
No copies survived.

[2]
Alan Turing's Chess program was written long before there
existed any computer that could run it, So Turing ran it
by hand using a pencil and paper, taking about half an
hour to compute each move.

[3]
Alan Turing's Chess program was incredibly weak. There
would be no point in playing it against even the weakest
programs written for actual computers.

Here is the only recorded game of Alan Turing's TurboChamp:

Event "First game by the frst chess program"]
[Site "Manchester, England"]
[Date "1952"]
[White "Turing's TurboChamp"]
[Black "Alick Glennie"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. e4 e5
2. Nc3 Nf6
3. d4 Bb4
4. Nf3 d6
5. Bd2 Nc6
6. d5 Nd4
7. h4 Bg4
8. a4 Nxf3+
9. gxf3 Bh5
10. Bb5+ c6
11. dxc6 O-O
12. cxb7 Rb8
13. Ba6 Qa5
14. Qe2 Nd7
15. Rg1 Nc5
16. Rg5 Bg6
17. Bb5 Nxb7
18. O-O-O Nc5
19. Bc6 Rfc8
20. Bd5 Bxc3
21. Bxc3 Qxa4
22. Kd2 Ne6
23. Rg4 Nd4
24. Qd3 Nb5
25. Bb3 Qa6
26. Bc4 Bh5
27. Rg3 Qa4
28. Bxb5 Qxb5
29. Qxd6 Rd8

--
Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/



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Old August 17th 07, 09:02 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Alan Turing's Chess program (was: Turing engine)




Tony M wrote:

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:40:13 -0700, wrote:

Is turing engine in any rating list, like ssdf? Has anybody tried it
against a wide variety of opponents to estimate its elo?

Is there anywhere in the web more info about how it works?

Thanks


Turing is much too weak of an engine to appear on the SSDF rating
list. There are a couple of other testers who do include it in their
lists. You can look at these links to get a general idea of its
strength:
http://www.grailmaster.com/misc/chess/comp/all.html
http://loirechecs.chez-alice.fr/ches...swar011PLs.htm


I would be very interested in seeing what they are calling
"Turing." I am guessing an unrelated program using the name
Turing, not the chess program written by Alan Turing, which
was lost.

The chessbase page that has the Turing download has an explanation of
Turing.
http://www.chessbase.com/download/download2.asp


That link leads to a page with no references to "Turing"

--
Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/



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Old August 17th 07, 04:55 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Alan Turing's Chess program (was: Turing engine)

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:02:25 +0000, Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:

I would be very interested in seeing what they are calling
"Turing." I am guessing an unrelated program using the name
Turing, not the chess program written by Alan Turing, which
was lost.


It's a Chessbase engine, written by Ken Thompson and Mathias Feist,
that is an implementation of Turing's "famous paper machine".

http://www.chessbase.com/columns/column.asp?pid=102

The chessbase page that has the Turing download has an explanation of
Turing.
http://www.chessbase.com/download/download2.asp


That link leads to a page with no references to "Turing"


I know, I posted a corrected link in reply to myself in this thread.
Here it is again, in case my post didn't come through on your server.

http://www.chessbase.com/download/index.asp

Select Engines from the drop down list.

Tony
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Old August 17th 07, 06:42 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Posts: 22
Default Turing engine

On Aug 17, 1:43 am, Tony M wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:40:13 -0700, wrote:
Is turing engine in any rating list, like ssdf? Has anybody tried it
against a wide variety of opponents to estimate its elo?


Is there anywhere in the web more info about how it works?


Thanks


Turing is much too weak of an engine to appear on the SSDF rating
list. There are a couple of other testers who do include it in their
lists. You can look at these links to get a general idea of its
strength:http://www.grailmaster.com/misc/ches...swar011PLs.htm

The chessbase page that has the Turing download has an explanation of
Turing.http://www.chessbase.com/download/download2.asp

Tony


Thank you Tony,
but i already knew about the chesbase engine. I realized quickly it is
rather weak, but i didn't know it was so weak!
There is some info on chessbase but i m still qurious about its actual
algorithm

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Old August 17th 07, 06:53 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Posts: 22
Default Alan Turing's Chess program (was: Turing engine)

On Aug 17, 10:45 am, Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:
wrote:
Is turing engine in any rating list, like ssdf? Has anybody tried it
against a wide variety of opponents to estimate its elo?


Is there anywhere in the web more info about how it works?


"Turing Engine" has another meaning. I suggest calling it
"Alan Turing's Chess Program" or "TurboChamp."

Nobody has tried it against other programs for the following
reasons:

[1]
Alan Turing's Chess program has been lost to history.
No copies survived.

[2]
Alan Turing's Chess program was written long before there
existed any computer that could run it, So Turing ran it
by hand using a pencil and paper, taking about half an
hour to compute each move.

[3]
Alan Turing's Chess program was incredibly weak. There
would be no point in playing it against even the weakest
programs written for actual computers.

Here is the only recorded game of Alan Turing's TurboChamp:

Event "First game by the frst chess program"]
[Site "Manchester, England"]
[Date "1952"]
[White "Turing's TurboChamp"]
[Black "Alick Glennie"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. e4 e5
2. Nc3 Nf6
3. d4 Bb4
4. Nf3 d6
5. Bd2 Nc6
6. d5 Nd4
7. h4 Bg4
8. a4 Nxf3+
9. gxf3 Bh5
10. Bb5+ c6
11. dxc6 O-O
12. cxb7 Rb8
13. Ba6 Qa5
14. Qe2 Nd7
15. Rg1 Nc5
16. Rg5 Bg6
17. Bb5 Nxb7
18. O-O-O Nc5
19. Bc6 Rfc8
20. Bd5 Bxc3
21. Bxc3 Qxa4
22. Kd2 Ne6
23. Rg4 Nd4
24. Qd3 Nb5
25. Bb3 Qa6
26. Bc4 Bh5
27. Rg3 Qa4
28. Bxb5 Qxb5
29. Qxd6 Rd8

--
Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/


HI Guy,
all these are very interesting.
I had no idea we lost it completely.
Are you aware of any effort to reconstruct it?
Or to make some valid educated guess about how it was working apart
from the non-detailed info on chessbase?
Thanks for the game
Thanks

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Old August 18th 07, 12:47 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Posts: 834
Default Alan Turing's Chess program




Tony M wrote:

Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:

I would be very interested in seeing what they are calling
"Turing." I am guessing an unrelated program using the name
Turing, not the chess program written by Alan Turing, which
was lost.


It's a Chessbase engine, written by Ken Thompson and Mathias Feist,
that is an implementation of Turing's "famous paper machine".


http://www.chessbase.com/download/index.asp

Select Engines from the drop down list.


Fascinating! It sure looks like Thompson and Feist had a copy
of Turing's original program that other sources say was lost.

I just went on a quest to ether find the program they started with
or the source code to the program they wrote.

I started with the description at the above URL:

Turing

Chess engine for Fritz by Mathias Feist and Ken Thompson which
implements the famous paper machine by Alan Turing. The orginal
set of rules was incomplete and unclear in several points,
which are discussed below.

1. no mention was made of stalemate; detection was added with
a positional evaluation of 0.0, which seemed to be the most
logical.

2. a move gets a bonus if threatening mate in 1; a threat
obviously means a nullmove for the other side which is
illegal if the move was giving check. Still it may be a
mate in 1 move. This was ignored, the move just gets the
bonus for a checking move.

3. algorithm enhanced so that the engine may play with
both sides, i.e. everything logically negated if black
to move.

4. iterative deepening added to allow higher search
depths.

5. a recapture is not made entirely clear: it is
considered to be a capture to the same square as
the previous move.

6. rule d) is not clear about checks/enemy pieces;
a wKe1 and a wPe4 give the vulnerability of e2+e3,
but a bPe4 gives an additional vulnerability of e4.
Doesn't sound logical.

7. calculating the material value is impossible if
one side is left with the king only. A division by
zero would occur. In this case the material value
is material+1.0 of the other side.

The algorithm is based on material value, at the
root moves with equal material values are resolved
by positional values which are shown as the
evaluation. This is not completely satisfying
since the positional values are rather "jerky"
and the more important material values are
hidden.
You download a setup program which allows
you to install the engine in the Fritz directory.

Download Turing Engine:
http://www.chessbase.com/download/en...p%20turing.exe

I downloaded it and ran it, and it created a single
file called Turing.eng, dated 16-09-2003 19:19 with
a size of 139,264 bytes.

Extracting various text strings from the above, I see:

R6028 - unable to initialize heap
R6026 - not enough space for stdio initialization
R6017 - unexpected multithread lock error
R6002 - floating point not loaded
Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library
Runtime Error! Program: ... program name unknown
Chess32.dll
Turing.eng
Turing Mathias Feist & Ken Thompson

.... So it's a Microsoft Visual C++ program with a Chess32.dll

The obvious Google searches turned up nothing:

Your search - Feist "turing.eng" - did not match any documents.
Your search - Feist "turing.c" - did not match any documents.
Your search - Feist "Chess32.dll" - did not match any documents.
Your search - Feist "Chess32.c" - did not match any documents.
Your search - turing "Chess engine for Fritz" - did not match any documents.

So, does anyone have any other information on this algorithm
-- either the Turing or the Thompson and Feist version?

Could someone with Fritz please run Turing.eng and tell me if
it displays any other information (splash screen, copyright,
help screens, etc.) and if possible post any that might help
in my search?





--
Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/


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