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Old August 27th 07, 12:44 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Kurt Födel --Guy Macon


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Kenneth Sloan wrote:

the real question is: why can't he spell Goedel?


The correct name of the author of _On Formally Undecidable
Propositions of Principia Mathematica and Related Systems_
is "Kurt Gödel." For those who use newsreaders that do not
handle non-ASCII characters, the letter between the "G"
and "d" in "Gödel" looks like "o" with two dots above it.

http://www.amazon.com/Formally-Undec...dp/0486669807/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del's_incompleteness_theorem

Usenet is an ASCII medium, so I usually replace the "ö"
with an "o". Some folks prefer to replace the "ö" with
an "oe", but neither replacement is the correct spelling.
A Google search on each shows that all three forms are in
common use (see below).

Other Encodings:

Unicode Character Name:
LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS (U+00F6)
Unicode 1.1.0 Latin-1 Supplement
Decomposition:
LATIN SMALL LETTER O (U+006F) / COMBINING DIAERESIS (U+0308)
Possible keyboard shortcuts: Alt +00F6 / Alt 0246 / Alt 148

HTML (dec) ö
HTML (hex) ö
HTML (named) ö
Unicode U+00F6 / U+006F U+0308
UTF-8 (hex) 0xC3 0xB6 (c3b6)
UTF-8 (bin) 11000011:10110110
UTF-16 (hex) 0x00F6 (00f6)
UTF-16 (dec) 246
UTF-32 (hex) 0x000000F6 (00f6)
UTF-32 (dec) 246
ISO-8859 f6
JIS_X0212 2b53
windows-125X f6
x-Mac 9a
x-windows-50220-50221 1b2428442b53
C/C++/Java/Python u"\u00F6"


Results of Google searches:

(Plus sign means "must be somewhere on the webpage", minus
sign means "must not be anywhere on the webpage.")

Thousands of webpages use each spelling:

Google search on [ +"Kurt Goedel" -"Kurt Godel" -"Kurt Gödel" ]
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q= +"Kurt Goedel" -"Kurt Godel" -"Kurt Gödel"
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...+G%C3%B6del%22
Gets about 45,600 results.

Google search on [ +"Kurt Godel" -"Kurt Gödel" -"Kurt Goedel" ]
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q= +"Kurt Godel" -"Kurt Gödel" -"Kurt Goedel"
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...Kurt+Goedel%22
Gets about 129,000 results.

Google search on [ +"Kurt Gödel" -"Kurt Goedel" -"Kurt Godel" ]
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q= +"Kurt Gödel" -"Kurt Goedel" -"Kurt Godel"
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...22&btnG=Search
Gets about 226,000 results.

Some web pages use two of the spellings on the same page:

Google search on [ +"Kurt Godel" +"Kurt Goedel" -"Kurt Gödel" ]
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q= +"Kurt Godel" +"Kurt Goedel" -"Kurt Gödel"
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...+G%C3%B6del%22
Gets about 42 results.

Google search on [ +"Kurt Godel" +"Kurt Gödel" -"Kurt Goedel" ]
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q= +"Kurt Godel" +"Kurt Gödel" -"Kurt Goedel"
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...Kurt+Goedel%22
Gets about 357,000 results.

Google search on [ +"Kurt Gödel" +"Kurt Goedel" -"Kurt Godel" ]
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q= +"Kurt Gödel" +"Kurt Goedel" -"Kurt Godel"
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...2Kurt+Godel%22
Gets about 224,000 results.


--
Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/

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Old August 27th 07, 01:13 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Kurt Födel --Guy M

27.08.2007 01:44, Guy Macon:

Some folks prefer to replace the "ö" with
an "oe", but neither replacement is the correct spelling.


This is a so called umlaut (the other two in German are 'ä' and 'ü'). At
least for German the only correct way of spelling it, when not using a
non ASCII-character is using "oe". In fact it is indeed an alternative
way of writing an umlaut. In old fonts a little 'e' above the 'o' was
used. Out of this the two dots developed. So, from a linguistic point of
view, the the usage of "oe" instead of "ö" is correct. By the way:
sometimes you can find in names (like in Goethe) the usage of "oe"
instead of "ö".

The disadavantage with the replacement ö-o is, that information is
lost. "Godel" and "Gödel" are pronounced quite differently. So, if you
encounter a name like "Fodel", you have no way telling, whether there
should be an umlaut or not. But when reading "Foedel", it is very likely
(although not guaranteed), that it represents an umlaut.

Greetings,
Ralf
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Old August 27th 07, 03:22 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Kurt Födel --Guy M

Theorem: "Goedel" is correct.

This Theorem is TRUE - but no proof is possible.

--
Kenneth Sloan
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/
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Old August 27th 07, 02:51 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Kurt Födel --Guy M

Kenneth Sloan wrote:
Theorem: "Goedel" is correct.


No, 'Kurt Gödel' is correct.
Or Chessmaster Grünfeld ( Grünfeld-Indian Defence),
or GM Robert Hübner,
or the former chancellor Gerd Schröder.

MW







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Old August 27th 07, 05:48 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Kurt Goedel --Guy Macon


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Manuel Wehrmann wrote:

Kenneth Sloan wrote:

Theorem: "Goedel" is correct.


No, 'Kurt Gödel' is correct.


Not in a USENET article it isn't. Usenet is an ASCII medium.

RFC-1036 Standard for Interchange of USENET Messages

"Full names may contain any printing ASCII characters from space
through tilde, except that they may not contain "(" (left
parenthesis), ")" (right parenthesis), "" (left angle bracket),
or "" (right angle bracket). Additional restrictions may be
placed on full names by the mail standard..."

References:
ASCII (American Standard Code for Information Interchange):
ANSI_X3.4-1968
ANSI_X3.110-1983
ISO-IR-99
ISO 8859-1
CSA_T500-1983

....which limits you to Godel or Goedel. As was correctly
pointed out earlier in the thread, given those two choices
Goedel is preferred because it retains information and
encourages correct pronunciation. That's the spelling
I will be using on USENET from now on.

The RFC specifies the From: header, but what good is it if
Kurt Gödel has to use two spellings in his posts depending
on whether his name is in the body or the header?

BTW, if any members of the MIME cult wish to chime in
with their ongoing attempts to turn USENET into the World
Wide Web with dancing bears and giant flashing red-on-purple
headlines, here are some references to start with: smile

http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/notes/notes.html
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/mail/mime-faq/mime0/
http://www.imc.org/ietf-usefor/1998/Nov/0062.html

--
Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/



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Old August 27th 07, 10:20 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Kurt Goedel--Guy Macon

27.08.2007 18:48, Guy Macon:
No, 'Kurt Gödel' is correct.


Not in a USENET article it isn't. Usenet is an ASCII medium.


When was this - before or after Trafalgar? You are aware that since some
time the Usenet is no longer a purely American mean of communication?
(Besides that, as I said: Goedel can be used as well. Calling it "not
correct" is nitpicking.)


RFC-1036 Standard for Interchange of USENET Messages

"Full names may contain any printing ASCII characters from space
through tilde, except that they may not contain "(" (left
parenthesis), ")" (right parenthesis), "" (left angle bracket),
or "" (right angle bracket). Additional restrictions may be
placed on full names by the mail standard..."


This is about the names in the header. RFC 822 states that the body
should contain only ASCII characters. Besides the fact that it has been
obsoleted by RFC2822, since more than 15 years there are RFC 1341 and
RFC 1342, later on RFC 2045-2048 which regulate amongst others the usage
of non-ASCII characters.

...which limits you to Godel or Goedel.


The current standards doesn't limit Usenet postings to ASCII (how do you
think people use the Usenet in German, French, Russian or even
Chinese?). I understand, that people without a German keyboard don't use
'ä', 'ö', 'ü' or 'ß' (as I usually omit cédilles and trémas when writing
French words, as they are not easily available on my keyboard -
therefore I write garcon and Citroen), but it has nothing to do with
lack of standards supporting the usage of non-ASCII-characters. If
somebody can not display non-ASCII characters in a correctly formatted
Usenet posting (or mail), broken software has to be blamed for that.


The RFC specifies the From: header, but what good is it if
Kurt Gödel has to use two spellings in his posts depending
on whether his name is in the body or the header?


As said - there is RFC 1342, which allows you to put special characters
also for instance into the subject line. If a piece of software doesn't
allow this, it's broken.


BTW, if any members of the MIME cult wish to chime in
with their ongoing attempts to turn USENET into the World
Wide Web with dancing bears and giant flashing red-on-purple
headlines, here are some references to start with: smile


MIME stands for "Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions" (notice the word
"Mail"). HTTP may use MIME, but MIME originally was not designed
specifically for the WWW but indeed for the exchange of messages
containing non-ASCII characters. So, this notion "MIME=WWW,
ASCII=Usenet" is not correct.

Greetings,
Ralf
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Old August 28th 07, 02:40 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Kurt Födel --Guy M

Manuel Wehrmann wrote:
Kenneth Sloan wrote:
Theorem: "Goedel" is correct.


No, 'Kurt Gödel' is correct.
Or Chessmaster Grünfeld ( Grünfeld-Indian Defence),
or GM Robert Hübner,
or the former chancellor Gerd Schröder.

MW



W H O O S H !

--
Kenneth Sloan
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/
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