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Old August 29th 07, 01:03 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Cheats on ICC. 'arjunshah'

Anyone know of a handle on ICC that cheats more than 'arjunshah' ? He
has 21 stored games where he disconnected. Just done it to me when he
was a minor piece down.


I think ICC should implement something where after say 8 disconnections
you loose all the games and get put on the disconnectors list. (For
those that don't know, if one gets put on there, any disconnection is
automatically a loss.)

Either that, or perhaps any disconnections are run though a chess engine
automatically and those where there score is +3 or more and there are
say 3 or more disconnectins,then the games is automatically declared as
a loss.

I usually have 'noescape' on, but its a bit unwise if using a WiFi link.

I get fed up with sending messages to adjudicate when some cheating ****
disconnects on me.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form:
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

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Old August 29th 07, 01:06 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Cheats on ICC. 'arjunshah'

Dave (from the UK) wrote:

Either that, or perhaps any disconnections are run though a chess engine
automatically and those where there score is +3 or more and there are
say 3 or more disconnectins,then the games is automatically declared as
a loss.


= +3 if the person disconnecting is black, and = -3 if the person is

white, then their game is lost.
--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form:
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://chessdb.sourceforge.net/ - a Free open-source Chess Database
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Old August 29th 07, 02:09 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Cheats on ICC. 'arjunshah'

"Dave (from the UK)" wrote:
Anyone know of a handle on ICC that cheats more than 'arjunshah' ? He
has 21 stored games where he disconnected. Just done it to me when he
was a minor piece down.


Yes, there are a few of them. No escape only works in games you seek for, so
it does't solve all problems. I tend to use request-win (or perhaps
request-draw) on these individuals in an attempt to deter them from this
behaviour in the future and of course to get the rating benefit that I think I
deserve.


I think ICC should implement something where after say 8 disconnections
you loose all the games and get put on the disconnectors list. (For
those that don't know, if one gets put on there, any disconnection is
automatically a loss.)

Either that, or perhaps any disconnections are run though a chess engine
automatically and those where there score is +3 or more and there are
say 3 or more disconnectins,then the games is automatically declared as
a loss.


I would say +1.5. I have had players drop a pawn, lose tempo and position and
realize that they are only likely to win if I make a mistake and then they
quit.

I usually have 'noescape' on, but its a bit unwise if using a WiFi link.


I play all the time on WiFi, you just need reliable service/hardware.

I get fed up with sending messages to adjudicate when some cheating ****
disconnects on me.


I think that games that adjourn due to disconnect should have 15 minutes to
return or automatically give the remaining player the opportunity to claim a
win/draw/loss (why would you do the latter?).

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the
machinations of the wicked.

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Old August 29th 07, 02:25 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Cheats on ICC. 'arjunshah'




Dave from the UK wrote:

I think ICC should implement something where after say 8 disconnections
you loose all the games and get put on the disconnectors list. (For
those that don't know, if one gets put on there, any disconnection is
automatically a loss.)


Lose. The word is lose, not loose.

How do you get on the disconnectors list now?





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Old August 29th 07, 09:53 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Cheats on ICC. 'arjunshah'

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:

Either that, or perhaps any disconnections are run though a chess engine
automatically and those where there score is +3 or more and there are
say 3 or more disconnectins,then the games is automatically declared as
a loss.



I would say +1.5. I have had players drop a pawn, lose tempo and position and
realize that they are only likely to win if I make a mistake and then they
quit.


I guess it would depend on the skill level of the players. If they are
rated 1000 standard, then its quite possible they would win a game even
if a rook down, since there opponent is quite likely to blunder a queen
at that level.

I'm no GM (a bit over 1500 on ICC), but clearly at this level its most
unlikely one could loose a rook with no compensation and still win.

But I really do wish there was something implemented to sort out the
cheats quickly and stop the behavior. I don't think it needs to be done
to everyone - only those with a certain minimum of stored games.

The other day I inadvertently played 'postalite' - another cretin who
has disconnected on me in the past when he was lost and has a list of
stored games as long as my arm. I got that game adjudicated in my favor,
but I decided not to play him again.

Unfortunately, I inadvertently clicked on the seek graph and so started
a game with him, a day or so back.

He beat me this time, so I sent him a tell saying "Well done, there was
no need to disconnect this time."

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form:
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://chessdb.sourceforge.net/ - a Free open-source Chess Database


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Old August 30th 07, 01:40 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Cheats on ICC. 'arjunshah'

"Dave (from the UK)" wrote:
I guess it would depend on the skill level of the players. If they are
rated 1000 standard, then its quite possible they would win a game even
if a rook down, since there opponent is quite likely to blunder a queen
at that level.

I'm no GM (a bit over 1500 on ICC), but clearly at this level its most
unlikely one could loose a rook with no compensation and still win.

But I really do wish there was something implemented to sort out the
cheats quickly and stop the behavior. I don't think it needs to be done
to everyone - only those with a certain minimum of stored games.

The other day I inadvertently played 'postalite' - another cretin who
has disconnected on me in the past when he was lost and has a list of
stored games as long as my arm. I got that game adjudicated in my favor,
but I decided not to play him again.

Unfortunately, I inadvertently clicked on the seek graph and so started
a game with him, a day or so back.

He beat me this time, so I sent him a tell saying "Well done, there was
no need to disconnect this time."


A "cretin" named Boritz is another. He drops games like turds. I also asked
for adjudication but got spanked for it. Why? Because I had put him in my
noplay list so that I wouldn't accidentally play him again and get dropped
again. So, now I have asked for an abort, and of course, that goes unanswered
as well. ICC needs to fix this or I will just move all my playing over to
Playchess.com and FICS (I am sure the issue exists with FICS as well, but at
least it is free).

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the
machinations of the wicked.

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Old September 3rd 07, 10:48 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Cheats on ICC. 'arjunshah'

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:

A "cretin" named Boritz is another.


I see Boritz has got an adjourned games with postalite, who is yet
another cheat (15 disconnections in his current list).

A look at the stored games of some on ICC, one sees the following have
disconnected many times:

arjunshah 18
postalite 15
Boritz 12
RJJR 7

I have in the past seen players with more than 20.

He drops games like turds. I also asked
for adjudication but got spanked for it. Why? Because I had put him in my
noplay list so that I wouldn't accidentally play him again and get dropped
again.


I would send him a message asking for him to suggest a date/time to
complete, remove him from your noplay list, then if he does not reply
(which the cheats never do), ask for adjudication.

So, now I have asked for an abort, and of course, that goes unanswered
as well.


But asking for an abort only encourages this behaviour - the cheats get
what they want (not loosing a game).

ICC needs to fix this or I will just move all my playing over to
Playchess.com and FICS (I am sure the issue exists with FICS as well, but at
least it is free).


Bad publicity is probably one thing that would encourage ICC to fix the
problem.

When I remember, which is not all the time, I looked at the stored list
of any opponent I don't know. If there are many exclamation marks (!)
then I know they disconnected so abort at move 1.



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Old September 3rd 07, 11:47 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Cheats on ICC. 'arjunshah'

Dave (from the UK) wrote:
Anyone know of a handle on ICC that cheats more than '[deleted]' ?


It's rather bad form to bandy such accusations around in public
forums. I'm sure ICC must provide you with an appropriate place to
report your suspicions.

He has 21 stored games where he disconnected. Just done it to me
when he was a minor piece down.


For reference, FICS doesn't let you start a new game if you have
twenty stored games. This seems, to me, to be a sensible measure.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Portable Tool (TM): it's like a hammer
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ but you can take it anywhere!
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Old September 3rd 07, 11:01 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Cheats on ICC. 'arjunshah'

David Richerby wrote:
Dave (from the UK) wrote:

Anyone know of a handle on ICC that cheats more than '[deleted]' ?



It's rather bad form to bandy such accusations around in public
forums. I'm sure ICC must provide you with an appropriate place to
report your suspicions.


I can't really see what else you can call it when someone disconnects a
lot, but never when they have an advantage. That suggests to me it is
not simply a poor internet connection.

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861596414/cheat.html

defines a cheat as "break rules to gain advantage: to break the rules in
a game, examination, or contest, in an attempt to gain an unfair advantage"

It's against ICC rules to do it, but they do. So is that not cheating?

He has several stored games vs computers, which are online 24/7. So
there is no excuse for going onto ICC when your opponent (a computer) is
online, but starting a new game with someone else.

Yes, ICC does allow one to report suspicions, but they seem to be pretty
ineffective at doing much about it. They have a 'suggestion' account,
which as far as I can see is linked to /dev/null.

I feel if ICC was a bit more proactive in methods to reduce the
frequency of this (you don't need a PhD to think of several things which
would help reduce this), and replied to suggestions of methods to reduce
it, then perhaps I'd not feel the need to put it on a newsgroup.

About the only response I have ever got from ICC was when I contacted
one of the owners directly about having an 'openings' channel, where you
could request people to play a particular opening. He felt it was not
really too useful, but said he would ask around. Never got any further
with that.

1) ICC do occasionally have contests under such rules (i.e. opening
agreed in advance)

2) Although channels are supposed to be related to chess, there are
numerous ones that are totally unrelated, and far less useful than one I
suggest. A look at the channels shows:

86 - ASCII art channel
97 - Politics.
123 - Acrobot
209 - Poker Channel.
274 - Spam channel.

Sometimes one feels that one hits ones head against a wall with ICC!

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form:
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://chessdb.sourceforge.net/ - a Free open-source Chess Database
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Old September 3rd 07, 11:06 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Cheats on ICC. 'arjunshah'

Guy Macon wrote:

Lose. The word is lose, not loose.


Cheers. My spelling errors can be useful at times though! (I'm sure you
know what I mean).

How do you get on the disconnectors list now?


I don't know what you have to do, but I know there is a list, and if
someone is on that and they disconnect, they will lose.

I think it needs people to complain - I don't think it is automatic upon
a certain number of stored games. But it hard to know for sure.

It seems to me that ICC need to do more to stop people from disconnecting.
--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form:
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://chessdb.sourceforge.net/ - a Free open-source Chess Database
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