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Old May 1st 04, 05:38 PM
 
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Default Alybadix or WinChloe or Popeye favor requested

I have composed a moderately complicated helpstalemate whose intended
solution involves White capturing a Black unit on every move, and I want
to computer-test it for soundness. I have Popeye, but it's taking
forever. I thought I might do a partial soundness test by adding the
condition "WhiteMustCapture," but this evidently doesn't mean what I
hoped it meant, because popeye finished quickly without finding my
intended solutions (and my intended solutions definitely do work---not
only is this trivially verifiable by hand, I even took the extra step
of computer-testing it just to make sure I wasn't hallucinating!).

I'm morally certain that if my problem is cooked, then the cook will
involve at most two non-capture moves by White. I've heard that
Alybadix has an option that will do what I want, but I don't have
Alybadix. I was wondering if someone here who owns Alybadix (or
WinChloe or any other solving program, if it has a similar forced-
capture option) would be willing to do me a favor and help verify
my composition?

By the way, this composition is supposed to be a surprise gift for
someone and so I want to keep it as secret as possible, which is why
I'm not posting it. Obviously, though, if you volunteer to help me,
I'll send it to you. It's a h=4.5 with (7+7) units and 2 solutions.
--
Tim Chow tchow-at-alum-dot-mit-dot-edu
The range of our projectiles---even ... the artillery---however great, will
never exceed four of those miles of which as many thousand separate us from
the center of the earth. ---Galileo, Dialogues Concerning Two New Sciences
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Old May 1st 04, 08:30 PM
Joost de Heer
 
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Default Alybadix or WinChloe or Popeye favor requested

I have composed a moderately complicated helpstalemate whose intended
solution involves White capturing a Black unit on every move, and I want to
computer-test it for soundness. I have Popeye, but it's taking forever.


You can use intelligent mode for h= (option intelligent). This speeds up
resolution time considerably. Example popeye input (using the later mentioning
of h=4.5):

begin
fors [Forsythe notation]
stip h=5
opt intel move maxsol 5 whi
end

You can alse send it to me ) and I'll try to
computertest it.

Joost
--
Du hast mein Herz zerrissen, meine Seele geraubt
Das es so enden würde hätt` ich nie geglaubt [Aus der Ruinen -]
Ohne Rücksicht auf Verluste, hast Du meine Welt zerstört [L'Âme Immortelle]
Eine Welt, die vor kurzem nur uns beiden hat gehört
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Old May 1st 04, 09:13 PM
 
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Default Alybadix or WinChloe or Popeye favor requested

In article ,
Joost de Heer wrote:
I have composed a moderately complicated helpstalemate whose intended
solution involves White capturing a Black unit on every move, and I want to
computer-test it for soundness. I have Popeye, but it's taking forever.


You can use intelligent mode for h= (option intelligent).


Ah! I'll try that. If I still have trouble I'll contact you. Thanks very
much!
--
Tim Chow tchow-at-alum-dot-mit-dot-edu
The range of our projectiles---even ... the artillery---however great, will
never exceed four of those miles of which as many thousand separate us from
the center of the earth. ---Galileo, Dialogues Concerning Two New Sciences
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Old May 2nd 04, 07:12 AM
Anders Thulin
 
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Default Alybadix or WinChloe or Popeye favor requested


Joost de Heer wrote:

You can use intelligent mode for h= (option intelligent). This speeds up
resolution time considerably.


But that's something else, isn't it? Finding a solution is one thing,
finding all solutions another. It's not at all well documented just
what trade-offs the intelligent option does, and how a result that comes
from it should be interpreted. My impression is that it it intended more
for solving problems, than for testing them.

After all, if 'intelligent' mode did the same thing as 'plain' mode,
but faster, it wouldn't make any sense to keep the 'plain' mode.

--
Anders Thulin ath*algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~ath

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Old May 2nd 04, 08:40 AM
Joost de Heer
 
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Default Alybadix or WinChloe or Popeye favor requested

You can use intelligent mode for h= (option intelligent). This speeds up
resolution time considerably.


But that's something else, isn't it? Finding a solution is one thing,
finding all solutions another.


Intelligent mode will find all solutions (assuming it's not bugged of course
. It just uses a different approach: It tries to find (stale)mate positions,
and then tries to reach them in the number of moves given. This is usually much
faster than brute-force.

After all, if 'intelligent' mode did the same thing as 'plain' mode, but
faster, it wouldn't make any sense to keep the 'plain' mode.


Twomovers are solved faster with brute-force than with intelligent mode. And
there's a type of longer problemswhich'll take ages in intelligent mode, and
seconds with brute-force.

Example of the latter:

J. Pogats
The Problemist 1990
Qk6/p2p1p2/3P1Pp1/8/2p3p1/2Pp1pP1/P2P1P1K/3b2BS
h#20

Solved on my PC with brute-force in 8.7 seconds. I've interrupted Intelligent
mode after about 20 seconds, it was still searching for mate positions after
4+4 moves.

Joost
--
Du hast mein Herz zerrissen, meine Seele geraubt
Das es so enden würde hätt` ich nie geglaubt [Aus der Ruinen -]
Ohne Rücksicht auf Verluste, hast Du meine Welt zerstört [L'Âme Immortelle]
Eine Welt, die vor kurzem nur uns beiden hat gehört
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