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Old February 2nd 08, 08:00 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc, alt.chess, rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Winners of Jan 2008 at GetClub Chess.

After a strong fight this month. Help Bot Managed to win Jan
Tournament at GetClub.

Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Here are the Top 6 players who won.

Jan 2008 Result
-------------------

1st. help bot : Points Awarded 24.8
2nd. beginner : Points Awarded 20.4
3rd. ---------Myself using Computer.
4th. jordan : Points Awarded 6.4
5th. peter : Points Awarded 5.4
6th. Mr_Phil : Points Awarded 4.3

This Time Beginner came to 2nd Position as Beginner Level was able to
beat many players. I came to 3rd position because I used computer to
play against getclub Chess.

All time Top Players at GetClub are

1) Zebediah Won: 188, Lost: 2 Rating: 1460
2) nomorechess Won: 142, Lost: 2 Rating: 1411
3) help bot Won: 228, Lost: 14 Rating: 1335
4) Taylor Kingston Won: 50, Lost: 0 Rating: 1315
5) chrisf Won: 85, Lost: 0 Rating: 1288
6) Bonsai Won: 57, Lost: 2 Rating: 1213

Now it is very difficult to win even the Beginner Level, So it is very
difficult to get higher ratings.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html








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Old February 2nd 08, 08:06 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc, alt.chess, rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Winners of Jan 2008 at GetClub Chess.

Now it is very difficult to win even the Beginner Level, So it is very
difficult to get higher ratings.


A typical game played by Peter with Beginner Level which he won in
just 22 moves.

Game Played between peter and beginner at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
peter: (Black)
beginner: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...403&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(beginner) -- (peter)

1. b2-b3{0} d7-d5{12}
2. Bc1-b2{0} Bc8-g4{6}
3. g2-g3{0} Nb8-d7{6}
4. Bf1-h3{12} Bg4-h3{16}
5. Ng1-h3{12} Ng8-f6{4}
6. Bb2-f6{6} Nd7-f6{16}
7. Nh3-g5{12} e7-e5{14}
8. f2-f4{22} e5-f4{18}
9. g3-f4{14} Nf6-e4{10}
10. Ng5-e4{12} d5-e4{12}
11. e2-e3{6} Qd8-h4{8}
12. Ke1-f1{12} Ke8-c8{34}
13. Nb1-c3{22} g7-g5{18}
14. f4-g5{20} Bf8-b4{14}
15. Qd1-e1{22} Qh4-g5{16}
16. Nc3-e4{22} Qg5-f5{18}
17. Ne4-f2{20} Rd8-d2{6}
18. a2-a3{22} Rd2-c2{16}
19. a3-b4{14} Qf5-b5{18}
20. Kf1-g1{20} Rh8-g8{6}
21. Nf2-g4{6} Rg8-g4{6}
22. Qe1-g3{18}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
peter: (Black)
beginner: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...403&game=Chess

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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Old February 2nd 08, 08:20 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Sep 2007
Posts: 184
Default Winners of Jan 2008 at GetClub Chess.

Sanny writes:

Now it is very difficult to win even the Beginner Level, So it is very
difficult to get higher ratings.


A typical game played by Peter with Beginner Level which he won in
just 22 moves.


I should add that I'm using a computer, mainly to test the playing
strength of the GetClub engine. I'm nowhere near that good myself.

--
Peter Osterlund -
http://web.telia.com/~u89404340
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Old February 2nd 08, 04:18 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc, alt.chess, rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,015
Default Winners of Jan 2008 at GetClub Chess.

On Feb 2, 8:06*am, Sanny wrote:
Now it is very difficult to win even the Beginner Level, So it is very
difficult to get higher ratings.


A typical game played by Peter with Beginner Level which he won in
just 22 moves.


1. b2-b3{0} d7-d5{12}
2. Bc1-b2{0} Bc8-g4{6}
3. g2-g3{0} Nb8-d7{6}
4. Bf1-h3{12} Bg4-h3{16}


4. Bg2 would probably be better and pleasingly symmetrical.

6. Bb2-f6{6} Nd7-f6{16}


Why? The Bishop was strong and still useful. And worth slightly more
than the N at this stage of the game and sat on such a nice square.
Swapoff isn't helpful here. Any of O-O, c4, d3, d4 would be OK

7. Nh3-g5{12} e7-e5{14}


Ng5 is OK for the moment, but it is a seriously weaker move than other
options.
Any of d4, f4, O-O, d3 would be better (to d4, f4 to discourage e5)

8. f2-f4{22} e5-f4{18}


What a difference a move makes! Too late! Now f4? is losing. Whites
king will rapidly be denuded of pawn shelter.

16. Nc3-e4{22} Qg5-f5{18}


Terminal decline sets in here. Only an immediate attack on the queen
can really hold on now.
Rg1 or Qf2

Does the program have a killer move heuristic? These sorts of position
where the opponent has a consistent and powerful threat (Rhg8) that
refutes most of whites possible moves are amenable to faster
searching.

18. a2-a3


You might have hoped the program would find one of Rc1 or e4 which
delay the inevitable.

But I would say Begginner is playing now as well as it ever has.

Regards,
Martin Brown
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Old February 2nd 08, 04:55 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Winners of Jan 2008 at GetClub Chess.

On Feb 2, 1:20*pm, Peter Osterlund wrote:
Sanny writes:
Now it is very difficult to win even the Beginner Level, So it is very
difficult to get higher ratings.


A typical game played by Peter with Beginner Level which he won in
just 22 moves.


I should add that I'm using a computer, mainly to test the playing
strength of theGetClubengine. I'm nowhere near that good myself.

--
Peter Osterlund -


That Solves the Mystry, Thats what I was wondering others are taking
80 Moves to win and you are winning in just 20-30 moves. Which Engine
you are testing with is it Fritz/ Rybka/ Chess Master ?

What is the rating of Beginner Level as per the games played by it.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html




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Old February 2nd 08, 04:55 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc, alt.chess, rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Winners of Jan 2008 at GetClub Chess.

8. f2-f4{22} e5-f4{18}

What a difference a move makes! Too late! Now f4? is losing. Whites
king will rapidly be denuded of pawn shelter.


When King has not chastled which are the pawns which should not be
moved ahead?

We prefer d4/e4 when the king is sitting just behind them. Then why we
do not like move f4/g4. Why do they weaken the King while d4/e4 do
not? Same thing is happening in both cases that is the pawns infront
of king are moved?

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Does the program have a killer move heuristic? These sorts of position
where the opponent has a consistent and powerful threat (Rhg8) that
refutes most of whites possible moves are amenable to faster
searching.


I do not understand what you mean by "killer move heuristic?"

18. a2-a3


You might have hoped the program would find one of Rc1 or e4 which
delay the inevitable.


The program saw a benefit of Bishop if Rxc2 after playing a2-a3. It
was only after lots of moves it was having a checkmate after 12 moves.

But I would say Begginner is playing now as well as it ever has.


I am only posting Games where it is loosing you can visit GetClub and
see other games where Beginner has played very well.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



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Old February 2nd 08, 06:26 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Sep 2007
Posts: 184
Default Winners of Jan 2008 at GetClub Chess.

Sanny writes:

On Feb 2, 1:20*pm, Peter Osterlund wrote:
Sanny writes:
Now it is very difficult to win even the Beginner Level, So it is very
difficult to get higher ratings.


A typical game played by Peter with Beginner Level which he won in
just 22 moves.


I should add that I'm using a computer, mainly to test the playing
strength of theGetClubengine. I'm nowhere near that good myself.


That Solves the Mystry, Thats what I was wondering others are taking
80 Moves to win and you are winning in just 20-30 moves. Which Engine
you are testing with is it Fritz/ Rybka/ Chess Master ?


I'm testing with crafty, set to an average thinking time of 5
seconds. However, it does think also when it's the oppoenents turn to
move, so the actual thinking time gets longer in the cases where
crafty correctly predicts which move the opponent will make.

What is the rating of Beginner Level as per the games played by it.


I can't get a rating number out of the games I've played, but here are
some subjective thoughts: (Others have said similar things before.)

* It seems to prefer playing knights to a3/h3/a6/h6 too often. In
general, knights are stronger the closer they are to the center of
the board, so it should prefer c3/f3/c6/f6 instead.

* There seems to be something wrong in the quiescence search which
sometimes makes it do very bad things when the position gets
complicated. Someone gave the good advice that the quiescence search
should not stop as long as its possible to capture a piece that is
worth more than the piece used for the capture.

For a general explanation of quiescence search, see this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiescence_search

* Another possibility is that the program is vulnerable to the
"horizon effect". I've seen it do bad moves that give away more
material than necessary just to delay the loss of other material.
"Singular extensions", "capture extensions" and/or "check
extensions" might be able to solve some of these problems.

For a general explanation of the horizon effect, see this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_effect

* All in all it plays pretty decent chess for beginner level. If you
were to correctly implement all suggestions given by all people, the
program would probably be so strong that most people would not be
interested in playing against it.

However, it would be nice if the higher levels could be made
stronger without increasing the thinking time so much. The reason I
haven't tested the higher levels yet is that it would simply take
more time than I have available.

Also, regarding the "killer heuristic" asked in another post,
wikipedia has a pretty good explanation he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_heuristic

--
Peter Osterlund -
http://web.telia.com/~u89404340
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Old February 2nd 08, 08:14 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Winners of Jan 2008 at GetClub Chess.

That Solves the Mystry, Thats what I was wondering others are taking
80 Moves to win and you are winning in just 20-30 moves. Which Engine
you are testing with is it Fritz/ Rybka/ Chess Master ?


I'm testing with crafty, set to an average thinking time of 5
seconds. However, it does think also when it's the oppoenents turn to
move, so the actual thinking time gets longer in the cases where
crafty correctly predicts which move the opponent will make.



So the reasion of this horrible play is that Crafty is thinking when
GetClub Program is also thinking. So the strength of GetClub Beginner
level reduces to half. Since Beginner Level has to play in 5-10
seconds So if other program is also running simultaniously then the
strength of the GetClub Program reduced to half.

If you can switch the thinking in Opponents time then I suppose
GetClub program will make better moves. As it has to share processing
speed with the other Program. So Beginner only uses half resources.

About rest of the things you said I will talk tommorow as I have to
leave today for some work.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Old February 2nd 08, 09:32 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Sep 2007
Posts: 184
Default Winners of Jan 2008 at GetClub Chess.

Sanny writes:

That Solves the Mystry, Thats what I was wondering others are taking
80 Moves to win and you are winning in just 20-30 moves. Which Engine
you are testing with is it Fritz/ Rybka/ Chess Master ?


I'm testing with crafty, set to an average thinking time of 5
seconds. However, it does think also when it's the oppoenents turn to
move, so the actual thinking time gets longer in the cases where
crafty correctly predicts which move the opponent will make.


So the reasion of this horrible play is that Crafty is thinking when
GetClub Program is also thinking. So the strength of GetClub Beginner
level reduces to half. Since Beginner Level has to play in 5-10
seconds So if other program is also running simultaniously then the
strength of the GetClub Program reduced to half.


I'm using a quad core CPU and getclub is getting one core all to
itself. Crafty is using the other 3 cores. It doesn't look like getclub
can use more than one core, so turning off crafty's thinking on
opponents time would not make getclub stronger. (But would make crafty
weaker.)

--
Peter Osterlund -
http://web.telia.com/~u89404340
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Old February 3rd 08, 08:36 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Winners of Jan 2008 at GetClub Chess.

So the reasion of this horrible play is that Crafty is thinking when
GetClubProgram is also thinking. So the strength ofGetClubBeginner
level reduces to half. Since Beginner Level has to play in 5-10
seconds So if other program is also running simultaniously then the
strength of theGetClubProgram reduced to half.


I'm using a quad core CPU andgetclubis getting one core all to
itself. Crafty is using the other 3 cores. It doesn't look likegetclub
can use more than one core, so turning off crafty's thinking on
opponents time would not makegetclubstronger. (But would make crafty
weaker.)


How do you know Crafty is not using all the Four Processors. And
GetClub is getting Complete one Core. May Be Crafty is taking 3.5
Cores and GetClub is using just 0.5 Core So Crafty is actually using 7
times more processing power when GetClub is moving.

And in its own move it is taking 8 times more power than GetClub is
taking.

So a total of 7+8=15 times for CPU usage. So if Crafty is using 15
times more power than GetClub then I can imagine such poor games.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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