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Old February 11th 08, 06:11 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,710
Default Analyze Game of Normal Level


"Sanny" wrote in message
...
Normal plays very good moves still it gave away its rook for Bishop.
Why I found Blacks Pwans was getting Killed Still giving Rook for
Bishop looks bad.

31. Nd3-c5{8} Ke8-f8{114} {Is This Wrong Move Black should Save its
Rook.}

Was Black loosing Two pawns That it has to give away its rook for
Bishop?

Game Played between bonsai and normal at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bonsai: (White)
normal: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...276&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(bonsai) -- (normal)

1. d2-d4{2} Ng8-f6{0}
2. c2-c4{2} c7-c5{0}
3. d4-d5{2} b7-b5{0}
4. Ng1-f3{2} g7-g6{0}
5. Nf3-d2{4} b5-b4{102}


first move out of the Benko book, and black goes wrong.

i assume 'nomal' level is here measured in seconds - or about 2 minutes a
move.

6. a2-a3{36} a7-a5{104}
7. a3-b4{72} c5-b4{100}
8. e2-e4{18} e7-e5{120}
9. Bf1-d3{26} d7-d6{92}
10. Nd2-b3{20} h7-h5{150}


then another 5 consecutive pawn moves, making 9 out of 10

11. Bc1-e3{24} Nf6-g4{130}
12. Be3-d2{26} Bc8-b7{100}
13. f2-f3{58} Ng4-f6{136}
14. Bd2-g5{20} Bf8-e7{190}
15. Bg5-e3{10}


well, white needs to develop his team, not dance around with the B - and
besides, he can eliminate the K-side defender with BxN, or even allow the
minor exchange at move 12

Nb8-d7{188}
16. Ke1-g1{22} h5-h4{116}
17. Qd1-e2{116} a5-a4{108}
18. Nb3-c1{10} Nd7-c5{124}
19. Nb1-d2{76} h4-h3{118}


bit hard to follow this in my head, with long-algebraic, but what is
indicated for white is a kingside attack, pawns an pieces

20. g2-g4{30} Ra8-a5{108}
21. Be3-c5{64} d6-c5{182}
22. Bd3-c2{20} b4-b3{94}
23. Bc2-d1{24} Ra5-a6{126}
24. Nc1-d3{60} Be7-d6{158}
25. Nd2-b1{28} Nf6-d7{142}
26. Nb1-c3


white does nor grasp the need to get after black's k side and spends 6 moves
going sideways to no advantage. 6 moves = 2 pawns!

{12} Nd7-b6{84}
27. Qe2-f2{66} Qd8-h4{164}
28. Nc3-b5{44} Nb6-c4{130}
29. Nb5-d6{40} Nc4-d6{86}
30. Qf2-h4{44} Rh8-h4{176}
31. Nd3-c5{8} Ke8-f8{114} {Is This Wrong Move It should Save its
Rook.}


I don't know, I can't follow this annotation very well, and don't like move
notations that don't indicate captures. to answer the questions below, black
saves its paws by not moving them unnecessarily in the opening. its merely
long-term procedure to overextend them, and unless black gains other
benefits from pawn moves, the game was over at 10, not 58

Phil Innes

32. Nc5-a6{32} Bb7-a6{134}
33. Rf1-e1{4} Ba6-b5{90}
34. Bd1-e2{12} Bb5-e8{92}
35. Kg1-f2{20} g6-g5{104}
36. Kf2-g3{18} Nd6-b5{122}
37. Ra1-a4{48} Nb5-d4{90}
38. Ra4-a7{22} f7-f6{106}
39. Be2-c4{48} Be8-b5{100}
40. Bc4-b5{16} Nd4-b5{96}
41. Ra7-b7{6} Nb5-d6{86}
42. Rb7-b3{18} Nd6-e8{112}
43. Re1-a1{22} Rh4-h7{106}
44. Rb3-b8{26} Rh7-e7{186}
45. Ra1-a8{14} Kf8-f7{110}
46. Rb8-e8{10} Re7-e8{178}
47. Ra8-e8{28} Kf7-e8{104}
48. Kg3-h3{4} Ke8-d8{108}
49. Kh3-g3{30} Kd8-c7{94}
50. h2-h4{78} Kc7-b8{130}
51. h4-h5{10} f6-f5{86}
52. h5-h6{8} f5-e4{210}
53. f3-e4{16} Kb8-b7{130}
54. h6-h7{4} Kb7-a6{126}
55. Qh7-h8{Q}{8} Ka6-b5{156}
56. Qh8-c8{24} Kb5-b4{86}
57. d5-d6{10} Kb4-b3{140}
58. d6-d7{6} Kb3-c2{82}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bonsai: (White)
normal: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...276&game=Chess

31. Nd3-c5{8} Ke8-f8{114} {Is This Wrong Move Black should Save its
Rook.} Was it a Forced Move or it was a mistake by Normal Level? Was
Black loosing the two pawns.

But still I find as the game proceed Black looses its pawns.

What do you think Black should have done to save its Pawns, I don't
Think giving Rook was a good move. But it was Normal Level who knows?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



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Old February 11th 08, 09:06 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 194
Default Analyze Game of Normal Level

Chess One wrote:
1. d2-d4{2} Ng8-f6{0}
2. c2-c4{2} c7-c5{0}
3. d4-d5{2} b7-b5{0}
4. Ng1-f3{2} g7-g6{0}
5. Nf3-d2{4} b5-b4{102}



first move out of the Benko book, and black goes wrong.


I fully agree, b5-b4 is just wrong. But in fact already 4...g6 is
suboptimal.

6. a2-a3{36} a7-a5{104}
7. a3-b4{72} c5-b4{100}
8. e2-e4{18} e7-e5{120}
9. Bf1-d3{26} d7-d6{92}
10. Nd2-b3{20} h7-h5{150}


I thought the moves e5 and h5 looked quite weird.

11. Bc1-e3{24} Nf6-g4{130}
12. Be3-d2{26} Bc8-b7{100}
13. f2-f3{58} Ng4-f6{136}
14. Bd2-g5{20} Bf8-e7{190}
15. Bg5-e3{10}
Nb8-d7{188}
16. Ke1-g1{22} h5-h4{116}
17. Qd1-e2{116} a5-a4{108}
18. Nb3-c1{10} Nd7-c5{124}
19. Nb1-d2{76} h4-h3{118}



bit hard to follow this in my head, with long-algebraic, but what is
indicated for white is a kingside attack, pawns an pieces


Well, black is not that badly placed, because white's pieces are a bit
tangled up. Black needs to find something to do though, while white
clearly can try to untangle as in the game and is then starting to do
well. I didn't think white was quite ready to open up the game due to
the messy position of the white pieces. Of course one can also usually
rely on this program to dig its own grave if one lets it move about for
long enough in closed positions.

20. g2-g4{30} Ra8-a5{108}
21. Be3-c5{64} d6-c5{182}
22. Bd3-c2{20} b4-b3{94}
23. Bc2-d1{24} Ra5-a6{126}
24. Nc1-d3{60} Be7-d6{158}
25. Nd2-b1{28} Nf6-d7{142}
26. Nb1-c3



white does nor grasp the need to get after black's k side and spends 6 moves
going sideways to no advantage. 6 moves = 2 pawns!


Actually, when I was playing the moves I thought that it's here that I
started to have a clear advantage on the queenside. In contrast the next
moves by black, namely knight to b6 and then takes c4 and in particular
that queen sortie are completely misguided.

{12} Nd7-b6{84}
27. Qe2-f2{66} Qd8-h4{164}
28. Nc3-b5{44} Nb6-c4{130}
29. Nb5-d6{40} Nc4-d6{86}
30. Qf2-h4{44} Rh8-h4{176}


There's no point even discussing any further, this is a point where
black is already completely lost, whether it crazily gives up the
exchange in a moment or not.

31. Nd3-c5{8} Ke8-f8{114} {Is This Wrong Move It should Save its
Rook.}


Of course this move is completely weird and idiotic, but the game is
lost already.
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Old February 11th 08, 11:01 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,710
Default Analyze Game of Normal Level


"Bjoern" wrote in message
. ..
Chess One wrote:
1. d2-d4{2} Ng8-f6{0}
2. c2-c4{2} c7-c5{0}
3. d4-d5{2} b7-b5{0}
4. Ng1-f3{2} g7-g6{0}
5. Nf3-d2{4} b5-b4{102}



first move out of the Benko book, and black goes wrong.


I fully agree, b5-b4 is just wrong. But in fact already 4...g6 is
suboptimal.


yes white should attack this structure with something like Bg5 and h4 for
h5 - with fixed central pawns locked white can play as if a piece ahead.

6. a2-a3{36} a7-a5{104}
7. a3-b4{72} c5-b4{100}
8. e2-e4{18} e7-e5{120}
9. Bf1-d3{26} d7-d6{92}
10. Nd2-b3{20} h7-h5{150}


I thought the moves e5 and h5 looked quite weird.

11. Bc1-e3{24} Nf6-g4{130}
12. Be3-d2{26} Bc8-b7{100}
13. f2-f3{58} Ng4-f6{136}
14. Bd2-g5{20} Bf8-e7{190}
15. Bg5-e3{10}
Nb8-d7{188}
16. Ke1-g1{22} h5-h4{116}
17. Qd1-e2{116} a5-a4{108}
18. Nb3-c1{10} Nd7-c5{124}
19. Nb1-d2{76} h4-h3{118}



bit hard to follow this in my head, with long-algebraic, but what is
indicated for white is a kingside attack, pawns an pieces


Well, black is not that badly placed, because white's pieces are a bit
tangled up. Black needs to find something to do though, while white
clearly can try to untangle as in the game and is then starting to do
well. I didn't think white was quite ready to open up the game due to the
messy position of the white pieces. Of course one can also usually rely on
this program to dig its own grave if one lets it move about for long
enough in closed positions.


ay

20. g2-g4{30} Ra8-a5{108}
21. Be3-c5{64} d6-c5{182}
22. Bd3-c2{20} b4-b3{94}
23. Bc2-d1{24} Ra5-a6{126}
24. Nc1-d3{60} Be7-d6{158}
25. Nd2-b1{28} Nf6-d7{142}
26. Nb1-c3



white does nor grasp the need to get after black's k side and spends 6
moves going sideways to no advantage. 6 moves = 2 pawns!


Actually, when I was playing the moves I thought that it's here that I
started to have a clear advantage on the queenside. In contrast the next
moves by black, namely knight to b6 and then takes c4 and in particular
that queen sortie are completely misguided.


it the chess engine is just point-counting, the engine has no positional
sense at all.

{12} Nd7-b6{84}
27. Qe2-f2{66} Qd8-h4{164}
28. Nc3-b5{44} Nb6-c4{130}
29. Nb5-d6{40} Nc4-d6{86}
30. Qf2-h4{44} Rh8-h4{176}


There's no point even discussing any further, this is a point where black
is already completely lost, whether it crazily gives up the exchange in a
moment or not.


yes

phil

31. Nd3-c5{8} Ke8-f8{114} {Is This Wrong Move It should Save its
Rook.}


Of course this move is completely weird and idiotic, but the game is lost
already.



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Old February 12th 08, 12:18 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,710
Default Analyze Game of Normal Level


"Sanny" wrote in message
...
first move out of the Benko book, and black goes wrong.

i assume 'nomal' level is here measured in seconds - or about 2 minutes a
move.

6. a2-a3{36} a7-a5{104}
7. a3-b4{72} c5-b4{100}
8. e2-e4{18} e7-e5{120}
9. Bf1-d3{26} d7-d6{92}
10. Nd2-b3{20} h7-h5{150}


then another 5 consecutive pawn moves, making 9 out of 10


Yes, I found that there was something wrong with positional analysis
and it was playing pawns.unnecesarily. Now the Problem has been
corrected.


Of course it has.

Can you tell me something about what are the good squares for White
Bishop and White Knights?


Yes. It depends on 2 things; the position of your pawns, and also the
position of the other player's pawns.

For instance - for black, remove the Benko from your opening book, [take out
the b5 move], and stick to a Modern Benoni, see also Czech Benoni, and Old
Benoni.

The Benko is a gambit which offers to give up a pawn for strategic pressure
against the White Q side - because your program can't see any further than
the NY Times Blog page, then you too should avoid strategic ventures for a
moment's actions.

And how much penalty should be given to a
King when it is moved without Chastling.


It should be put into a cage with Messers Lafferty and Sloan for 20
minutes - then the boy'll learn to chastle early! and chastle right!

You might also think of penalising it for every move it stays in the centre
after move 10 - look what happened to them!

But most of all you should leave here for 6 months and talk to the people in
chess.computer and learn about their evaluation rubrics [also for free].

If you leave you King in the centre, the whole game becomes about you and
your king [like "ego", no?] And its not paranoia - All the other player's
pieces are //really// out to get you while you are stuck in the center. The
only problem with this practice is that while it suits meglomaniacs, it
almost always loses ;(

A sad story, but true.

Cordially, Phil Innes

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



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