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Old September 29th 08, 05:40 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jun 2008
Posts: 37
Default It's not a bug it's ChessBase

Hello Chesslovers,

For all of you who like to thow money in the throat of reliable chess GUI
here is something for you to try. This is the first position:

5Q2/PP1B1P2/1P6/2B5/1p1P4/7p/nPR1bp1P/3k3K w - - 0 1

You should load the engine Fruit. You should try it in the Fritz 10 and
Fritz 11 GUI. Then you could try it in Arena.


Here is a second position for you to try:

1QqQqQq1/r6Q/Q6q/q6Q/B2q4/q6Q/k6K/1qQ1QqRb w - - 0 1

You can try Fritz 11 and see how long it takes to find one of the several
existing mate in one moves.
After that you could try a freeware engine.

Chessbase is giving you all garbage till you decide you don't want to be
their garbage bin !

Ahh don't forget that if you mention these bugs on the ChessBase server you
will be banned by a certain sysop, you all know who he is.

I think it is better to doante your money for other projects than buying
crap(base). How many features are they going to "introduce" ? Let's take a
look:


1) UCI was already supported by Arena and the Shredder GUI when they
"introduced" it.
2) Server support was already available in Arena (real servers with sensible
sysops not crap)
3) Chess960 was already supported in Arena
4) - ?) look yourself


I am awaiting a silly answer But we Arena think several moves ahead.

Best,
Michael
Web: http://www.playwitharena.com
Mind the Base, join the Arena





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Old October 1st 08, 10:19 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,015
Default It's not a bug it's ChessBase

On Sep 29, 5:40*pm, "Michael Diosi" wrote:
Hello Chesslovers,

For all of you who like to thow money in the throat of reliable chess GUI
here is something for you to try. This is the first position:

5Q2/PP1B1P2/1P6/2B5/1p1P4/7p/nPR1bp1P/3k3K w - - 0 1

You should load the engine Fruit. You should try it in the *Fritz 10 and
Fritz 11 GUI. *Then you could try it in Arena.


This one appears to be one of those knife edge positions that the
ChessBase GUI makes a particularly bad fist of. It would be hard for
Arena to do a worse job. Everyone apart from ChessBase agrees that
there is a monumental sized bug in their GUI when the search ply for
infinite analysis in a forced mate in N exceeds 2N by any significant
amount. It isn't clear what the engine spends its time pondering as
the continuations after the mate but it slows down exponentially once
the condition is met.

Here is a second position for you to try:

1QqQqQq1/r6Q/Q6q/q6Q/B2q4/q6Q/k6K/1qQ1QqRb w - - 0 1

You can try Fritz 11 and see how long it takes to find one of the several
existing mate in one moves.
After that you could try a freeware engine.


This one seems to fox a lot of engines. Fritz 5.32, 8, HIARCS 10,
Crafty 19.19 and amazingly Mate 2.16 all stall on it or at least take
much longer than I am prepared to wait.

Tactically sharp engines like Junior 7 resolve it almost perfectly in
under a second (by far the fastest). But even then without human
assistance there are about half a dozen moves it cannot see into
namely:

Qe f2+
Qf f2+
Qhxf1
Qh c2+
Qc c2+

And the oddest of all were Qa x f1 and Qf x f1 which even after being
played out to preload the cache would not show up correctly in the
summary table during infinite analysis.

Shredder managed the following strange partial result in a couple of
minutes and had for some inexplicable reason completely failed to find
all the mate 2's. Worse it seemed to think that Rxg8 might be winning

After about 3 minutes it had correctly found Qc x a3 #1, Qf x a3 #1
but had missed the other 4 mate in 1s. I suspect this is due to a huge
capture search extention explosion. It had found all 6 of the mate #1
after 12 minutes. It was reporting the results of a ply 1 search with
extentions to ply 29! The only other ones it found was Qh x g8+ and Qf
x g8+ as #4. At least it got a result but it was far from quick to do
so!

Chessbase is giving you all garbage till you decide you don't want to be
their garbage bin !


Rybka doesn't get very far with this position in infinite analysis
either. I suspect certain variants of selective extentions get into
trouble with this type of position where capture explosions occur.

Regards,
Martin Brown
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