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Old November 16th 08, 05:24 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Peter win Master Level at GetClub.

Peter played with Master Level using his computer program. Glaurung
2.1

Glaurung 2.1 was thinking for 2 sec / move
GetClub Master Level was thinking: 500 sec / move.

So GetClub was taking 250 times more time, Still GetClub lost the
game.

6. Nf3xd4{392} Ng4xf2{16}

Here on 6th move Glaurung gave sacrifice of its knight for a pawn.

After 40 ply it recover a extra Bishop. Since Master Level cannot see
40 ply deep it overlooked this move.

I am amazed to see how Glaurung find a sacrifice 40 ply deep.

Game Played between peter and master at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
peter: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...550&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(master) -- (peter)

1. c2-c4{0} e7-e5{10}
2. Nb1-c3{0} Ng8-f6{20}
3. e2-e4{1096} Bf8-c5{210}
4. Ng1-f3{328} Nf6-g4{14}
5. d2-d4{692} e5xd4{12}
6. Nf3xd4{392} Ng4xf2{16}
7. Ke1-f2{346} Qd8-f6{72}
8. Kf2-e3{358} Nb8-c6{14}
9. Nc3-b5{536} Ke8-g8{14}
10. Bf1-e2{436} Rf8-e8{14}
11. a2-a3{336} Qf6-e5{14}
12. Be2-f3{490} a7-a5{28}
13. Ra1-a2{1440} f7-f5{6064}
14. g2-g3{0} f5-e4{18}
15. Bf3-g2{832} d7-d5{1012}
16. Rh1-f1{0} Nc6-d4{14}
17. Nb5-d4{456} Bc8-g4{62}
18. Qd1-d2{402} Bg4-f3{84}
19. b2-b3{412} d5-c4{16}
20. Ra2-c2{598} b7-b5{20}
21. b3-b4{492} Bc5-b6{78}
22. b4-a5{1010} Ra8-a5{20}
23. Qd2-c3{334} Re8-a8{18}
24. Rc2-a2{456} Bf3-g2{252}
25. Rf1-f4{598} g7-g5{16}
26. Rf4-f2{560} Bg2-h3{18}
27. Ra2-d2{662} Bh3-g4{18}
28. Rf2-f1{396} Ra5-a6{18}
29. Bc1-b2{406} Bb6-c5{18}
30. a3-a4{844} Ra6-a4{26}
31. Rf1-f2{930} Ra8-d8{20}
32. Rf2-f1{744} Ra4-b4{16}
33. Bb2-a1{608} Rb4-b3{14}
34. Qc3-b3{654} c4-b3{12}
35. Rf1-f2{1330} b3-b2{24}
36. Ba1-b2{580} Qe5-e6{8}
37. Rf2-f1{1346} Qe6-b3{90}
38. Ke3-f2{138} e4-e3{14}
39. Kf2-g2{380} Qb3-d5{14}
40. Kg2-g1{996}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
peter: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...550&game=Chess

Can anyone spot any mistake in GetClub's game?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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Old November 16th 08, 10:24 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Sep 2007
Posts: 184
Default Peter win Master Level at GetClub.

Sanny writes:

Peter played with Master Level using his computer program. Glaurung
2.1

Glaurung 2.1 was thinking for 2 sec / move
GetClub Master Level was thinking: 500 sec / move.

So GetClub was taking 250 times more time, Still GetClub lost the
game.

6. Nf3xd4{392} Ng4xf2{16}

Here on 6th move Glaurung gave sacrifice of its knight for a pawn.

After 40 ply it recover a extra Bishop. Since Master Level cannot see
40 ply deep it overlooked this move.

I am amazed to see how Glaurung find a sacrifice 40 ply deep.


It didn't. See my response in the other thread. Glaurung saw the
knight capture after a 6 ply search which took 13 milliseconds.

--
Peter Osterlund -
http://web.telia.com/~u89404340
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Old November 16th 08, 11:27 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Peter win Master Level at GetClub.

After 40 ply it recover a extra Bishop. Since Master Level cannot see
40 ply deep it overlooked this move.


I am amazed to see how Glaurung find a sacrifice 40 ply deep.


It didn't. See my response in the other thread. Glaurung saw the
knight capture after a 6 ply search which took 13 milliseconds.


Yes, I saw that thread.

Still the Moves after 4...... Ng4 were forced moves.

As 5. d4 was the only move to save the f2 pawn. As f2 pawn was being
attacked by Knight & Bishop.

After 5..... exd4, 6. Nxd4 was the only move else GetClub would be a
pawn down.

6.... Nxf2 was the gambit.

To avoid This gambit GetClub should have seen it at 3. Nf3.

But at N-f3 GetClub found There was nothing wrong. And after that all
moves were forced moves.

Was Glaurung able to see this advantage when it played 3... N-g4?

As per below data even Glaurung was unable to see this gambit at move
3... Ng4 As at move 4 it shows a score of 60 points. What was tthe
score at Move 3?

Only after 6 forced moves this gambit took place.

Here is data extracted from the glaurung log file. The table shows
move number, search depth, score, thinking time and principal
variation.

4 16 60 4271 : f6g4 d2d4 e5d4 c3a4 c5b4 c1d2 d8e7 f1e2 b4d2 d1d2
b8c6 e1g1
5 16 76 3397 : e5d4 c3a4 c5b4 c1d2 d8e7 f1e2 b8c6 e1g1 g4e5 f3e5
e7e5 d2b4
6 16 188 3611 : g4f2 e1f2 d8f6 f2e1 c5d4 d1f3 d4c3 b2c3 f6e7 f1e2
e8g8 e1d1
7 15 176 2879 : d8f6 d1f3 c5d4 f2e1 d4c3 f3c3 f6h4 c3g3 h4e4 f1e2
e8g8 c1h6
8 15 213 2923 : b8c6 c3d5 f6e5 e3d3 e5d4 d3c2 d4e4 d1d3 e4d5 c4d5
c6b4 c2c3
9 13 252 2858 : e8g8 b2b4 c6b4 a2a3 b4c6 c1b2 d7d6 d1f3 f6g6 f3f4
f8e8 b5c7
10 13 352 3158 : f8e8 a2a3 f6e5 e2f3 a7a5 d1d3 a8a6 c1d2 c6d4 b5d4
a6f6 e3f2
11 12 352 796 : f6e5 e2f3 a7a5 d1d3 a8a6 b2b3 c6d4 b5d4 a6d6 c1b2
e5f6 e3f2
12 13 315 3659 : a7a5 d1d3 f7f5 h1d1 e5h2 e3f2 f5e4 f3e4 h2h4 g2g3
h4e4 d3e4
13 13 449 3409 : f7f5 e3d2 c6d4 b5d4 c5d4 h1e1 d7d6 d2c2 f5e4 c2b1
c8f5 b1a1
14 13 541 1833 : f5e4 f3g2 d7d5 e3f2 c6d4 b5d4 c5d4 f2e1 d5c4 c1f4
e5c5 h1f1
15 13 539 785 : d7d5 e3f2 c6d4 b5d4 c5d4 f2e1 d5c4 h1f1 e5c5 c1g5
c4c3 b2b3
16 14 745 1943 : c6d4 b5d4 c8g4 d1g4 e5d4 e3e2 d4c4 e2e1 c4a2 g4e2
e8f8 e2b5
17 15 758 2091 : c8g4 d1g4 e5d4 e3e2 d4c4 e2d1 c4b3 d1e1 b3a2 g4e2
e8f8 e2b5
18 13 872 2385 : g4f3 f1d1 e5h5 b2b4 a5b4 a3b4 c5b4 a2a8 b4d2 d1d2
h5h6 e3f2
19 12 850 1265 : d5c4 a2c2 f3g2 f1f4 a8d8 c2c4 g2f3 c1b2 c5a7 f4f3
e4f3 e3f2
20 12 925 3115 : b7b5 b3b4 c5b6 f1e1 f3g2 c1b2 g2f3 e3f2 e8d8 f2g1
d8d4 b2d4
21 12 1066 1620 : c5b6 e3f2 e4e3 d2e3 b6d4 g2f3 d4e3 f2g2 e5f5 c2a2
a8a7 f3c6
22 12 988 2677 : a8a5 f1d1 e5g5 e3f2 e4e3 d2e3 e8e3 c1e3 f3d1 e3g5
b6d4 g5e3
23 12 1131 1909 : e8a8 c2a2 f3g2 f1f4 g7g5 f4f2 g2h3 a2c2 a8d8 e3e2
d8d4 e2e1
24 13 1145 1061 : f3g2 f1f4 g7g5 f4f2 g2f3 c1b2 a8d8 a3a4 f3g4 a2a1
b6c5 a4b5
25 14 1135 1641 : g7g5 f4f2 g2f3 c1b2 a8d8 a3a4 f3g4 a2a1 e5d5 f2d2
d5f7 d2f2
26 13 1135 1129 : g2h3 a3a4 a8d8 c1b2 h3g4 a2a1 e5d5 f2d2 d5f7 d2f2
g4f3 c3a5
27 12 1100 1045 : h3g4 c1b2 a8d8 f2e2 e5f6 e2f2 f6d6 f2f1 d6e5 d2d1
c7c5 d4b5
28 13 1168 1146 : a5a6 c1b2 a8d8 a3a4 a6a4 f1a1 a4a1 b2a1 d8f8 d2f2
f8d8 f2d2
29 13 1194 3924 : b6c5 d2d1 a8d8 d1d2 a6d6 a3a4 c7c6 a4a5 d8d7 a5a6
g4h3 f1d1
30 12 1307 621 : a6a4 d2d1 a8d8 c3d2 a4a2 d2c3 g8h8 c3c2 g4d1 f1d1
e5f6 c2g2
31 13 1513 1380 : a8d8 f2e2 a4a2 e2g2 g8h8 h2h3 g4h3 g2g1 h3g4 e3f2
e4e3 f2g2
32 13 1658 973 : a4b4 b2a1 b4b3 c3b3 c4b3 f1c1 c5b6 c1c6 b6a7 a1b2
g8g7 c6c1
33 13 1668 590 : b4b3 c3b3 c4b3 f1c1 c5a7 c1f1 g8g7 a1b2 h7h5 f1b1
h5h4 b1c1
34 11 1668 223 : c4b3 f1c1 c5a7 c1f1 g8g7 a1b2 h7h5 f1b1 h5h4 b1c1
h4g3 h2g3
35 12 3056 1748 : b3b2 a1b2 e5e6 d2d3 e4d3 e3d2 c5d4 b2d4 d8d4 h2h3
g4h3 d2c3
36 13 mate9 811 : e5e6 f2f1 e6b3 e3f2 e4e3 f2g2 b3d5 g2g1 e3d2 b2c3
g4h3 f1f2
37 10 mate8 70 : e6b3 e3f2 e4e3 f2g1 e3d2 g1g2 b3d5 g2f2 d5f3 f2g1
d2d1q f1d1
38 8 mate7 21 : e4e3 f2g1 e3d2 g1g2 b3d5 f1f3 d2d1q h2h3 g4f3 g2f2
c5d4 b2d4
39 8 mate6 18 : b3d5 g2g1 e3d2 b2c3 g4h3 f1f2 d2d1q c3e1 d1e1 f2f1
e1f1

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



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Old November 16th 08, 01:05 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Sep 2007
Posts: 184
Default Peter win Master Level at GetClub.

Sanny writes:

After 40 ply it recover a extra Bishop. Since Master Level cannot see
40 ply deep it overlooked this move.


I am amazed to see how Glaurung find a sacrifice 40 ply deep.


It didn't. See my response in the other thread. Glaurung saw the
knight capture after a 6 ply search which took 13 milliseconds.


Yes, I saw that thread.

Still the Moves after 4...... Ng4 were forced moves.

As 5. d4 was the only move to save the f2 pawn. As f2 pawn was being
attacked by Knight & Bishop.

After 5..... exd4, 6. Nxd4 was the only move else GetClub would be a
pawn down.

6.... Nxf2 was the gambit.

To avoid This gambit GetClub should have seen it at 3. Nf3.

But at N-f3 GetClub found There was nothing wrong. And after that all
moves were forced moves.

Was Glaurung able to see this advantage when it played 3... N-g4?


Yes it was. As you can see from the log file, glaurung thought that
getclub should play 6. Na4 instead of 6. Nxd4. That way it would only
have lost a pawn, instead of getting the king in the middle and losing
even more.

As per below data even Glaurung was unable to see this gambit at move
3... Ng4 As at move 4 it shows a score of 60 points. What was tthe
score at Move 3?


It saw a way to avoid the worst problems by playing 6. Na4 instead of
6. Nxd4. That's why the score was only 60.

--
Peter Osterlund -
http://web.telia.com/~u89404340
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Old November 16th 08, 02:23 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Weakness removed.

Yes it was. As you can see from the log file, glaurung thought that
getclub should play 6. Na4 instead of 6. Nxd4. That way it would only
have lost a pawn, instead of getting the king in the middle and losing
even more.

As *per below data even Glaurung was unable to see this gambit at move
3... Ng4 As at move 4 it shows a score of 60 points. What was tthe
score at Move 3?


It saw a way to avoid the worst problems by playing 6. Na4 instead of
6. Nxd4. That's why the score was only 60.


There was a weakness in the GetClub game that was removed just now.

If you are playing a new game Just restart your Computer So that you
can play with the improved version of GetClub.

There was one weakness in the game that was removed. So that Now it
will not fall in such traps.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html




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Old November 16th 08, 02:43 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Sep 2007
Posts: 184
Default Weakness removed.

Sanny writes:

Yes it was. As you can see from the log file, glaurung thought that
getclub should play 6. Na4 instead of 6. Nxd4. That way it would only
have lost a pawn, instead of getting the king in the middle and losing
even more.

As *per below data even Glaurung was unable to see this gambit at move
3... Ng4 As at move 4 it shows a score of 60 points. What was tthe
score at Move 3?


It saw a way to avoid the worst problems by playing 6. Na4 instead of
6. Nxd4. That's why the score was only 60.


There was a weakness in the GetClub game that was removed just now.

If you are playing a new game Just restart your Computer So that you
can play with the improved version of GetClub.

There was one weakness in the game that was removed. So that Now it
will not fall in such traps.


What kind of weakness? I had already started a new game, see below.
Do you think getclub has made any bad moves so far because of this
weakness? I can terminate this game and start a new one if you want
to. Or is it enough to just reboot the computer and continue this
game?

[Date "2008.11.16"]
[White "GetClub master level"]
[Black "Glaurung 2.1, 2 sec / move"]

1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. e4 Bc5 4. Nf3 d6 5. Nd5 Nf6 6. d3 Ng4 7. Be3 Nxe3 8.
fxe3 O-O 9. a3 Ne7 10. b4

--
Peter Osterlund -
http://web.telia.com/~u89404340
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Old November 16th 08, 04:01 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Weakness removed.

There was one weakness in the game that was removed. So that Now it
will not fall in such traps.


What kind of weakness? I had already started a new game, see below.
Do you think getclub has made any bad moves so far because of this
weakness? I can terminate this game and start a new one if you want
to. Or is it enough to just reboot the computer and continue this
game?

[Date "2008.11.16"]
[White "GetClub master level"]
[Black "Glaurung 2.1, 2 sec / move"]

1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. e4 Bc5 4. Nf3 d6 5. Nd5 Nf6 6. d3 Ng4 7. Be3 Nxe3 8.
fxe3 O-O 9. a3 Ne7 10. b4


Restart game by Rebooting So that new version of the game starts.

I have deleted this game from database. So that when you restart you
can start a new game.

With the weakness removed the GetClub will play much stronger now.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



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Old November 17th 08, 04:17 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 9,302
Default Peter win Master Level at GetClub.

On Nov 16, 12:24*am, Sanny wrote:

Peter played with Master Level using his computer program. Glaurung
2.1

Glaurung 2.1 was thinking for 2 sec / move
GetClub Master Level was thinking: 500 sec / move.

So GetClub was taking 250 times more time, Still GetClub lost the
game.

6. Nf3xd4{392} Ng4xf2{16}

Here on 6th move Glaurung gave sacrifice of its knight for a pawn.

After 40 ply it recover a extra Bishop. Since Master Level cannot see
40 ply deep it overlooked this move.

I am amazed to see how Glaurung find a sacrifice 40 ply deep.

Game Played between peter and master at GetClub.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----
peter: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...550&game=Chess
---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----

White -- Black
(master) -- (peter)

1. c2-c4{0} e7-e5{10}
2. Nb1-c3{0} Ng8-f6{20}
3. e2-e4{1096} Bf8-c5{210}
4. Ng1-f3{328} Nf6-g4{14}
5. d2-d4{692} e5xd4{12}
6. Nf3xd4{392} Ng4xf2{16}
7. Ke1-f2{346} Qd8-f6{72}
8. Kf2-e3{358} Nb8-c6{14}
9. Nc3-b5{536} Ke8-g8{14}
10. Bf1-e2{436} Rf8-e8{14}
11. a2-a3{336} Qf6-e5{14}
12. Be2-f3{490} a7-a5{28}
13. Ra1-a2{1440} f7-f5{6064}
14. g2-g3{0} f5-e4{18}
15. Bf3-g2{832} d7-d5{1012}
16. Rh1-f1{0} Nc6-d4{14}
17. Nb5-d4{456} Bc8-g4{62}
18. Qd1-d2{402} Bg4-f3{84}
19. b2-b3{412} d5-c4{16}
20. Ra2-c2{598} b7-b5{20}
21. b3-b4{492} Bc5-b6{78}
22. b4-a5{1010} Ra8-a5{20}
23. Qd2-c3{334} Re8-a8{18}
24. Rc2-a2{456} Bf3-g2{252}
25. Rf1-f4{598} g7-g5{16}
26. Rf4-f2{560} Bg2-h3{18}
27. Ra2-d2{662} Bh3-g4{18}
28. Rf2-f1{396} Ra5-a6{18}
29. Bc1-b2{406} Bb6-c5{18}
30. a3-a4{844} Ra6-a4{26}
31. Rf1-f2{930} Ra8-d8{20}
32. Rf2-f1{744} Ra4-b4{16}
33. Bb2-a1{608} Rb4-b3{14}
34. Qc3-b3{654} c4-b3{12}
35. Rf1-f2{1330} b3-b2{24}
36. Ba1-b2{580} Qe5-e6{8}
37. Rf2-f1{1346} Qe6-b3{90}
38. Ke3-f2{138} e4-e3{14}
39. Kf2-g2{380} Qb3-d5{14}
40. Kg2-g1{996}
---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----
*peter: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...550&game=Chess

Can anyone spot any mistake in GetClub's game?



First of all, Glaurund did not see 40 plys ahead,
(and even if it could, it would not be looking at the
inferior line played by the GetClub program).

This opening is very similar to something folks
around here used to call the Fried Liver Attack,
possibly also known as the Wilkes-Barre.

White erred first of all by playing both e4 and
c4, which weakens the dark squares; careful
defense could alleviate such a problem, but
instead GC tried to calculate its way through
a maze of sharp variations, and lost its way.

Tactically, the simple 4. Be2 would have
circumvented the Knight sacrifice, but this is
a poor arrangement for White. I prefer the
idea of a Kingside fianchetto, even if it may
become necessary to play p-h3 to keep the
Black steed at bay.

Anyway, after the sacrifice on f2 White was
under the gun the rest of the way, and by
mid-game it was clear what the result would
likely be. Take a gander at GetClub's horrific
13. Ra2; this is the sort of thing which so
often comes up in tactical skirmishes, and
is the hallmark of a very confused mind-- er,
chess engine.

In attempting to defend such a precarious
position, a /coherent development/ of the
pieces must be figured out, but GC always
jumbles its men about in a fog of confusion.
This in turn creates numerous opportunities
for the opponent to land a decisive tactical
blow-- or perhaps two or three.

My machine spotted a forced checkmate
as early as the move 35. ... b2, vacating the
b3 square for its Queen. But even before
that, it had Black a piece or so ahead for
many moves. I did not realize that the
attack was quite so powerful; in fact, I had
the impression (though I never played
this line from either side except in casual
blitz games) that White was supposed to
emerge on top-- if he defended perfectly.
After analysing this game, I have changed
my mind.

So then, how does one properly play
this sort of opening? Well, it's hard to go
wrong with the old adage "Knights before
Bishops"; in other words, the early moves
might go:

1. c4 e5

2. Nc3 Nf6

3. Nf3

I suspect that apart from fetching moves
by rote from a database, this sort of thing
can be accomplished by giving a small
bonus for piece-development in the early
opening. Note how moves like 3. e4 do
nothing to promote castling, whereas the
move 3. Nf3 gets one obstruction out of
the White King's way (if he castles King-
side).

One more thing; the move 18. Qd2 is
yet another symptom of a disasterous
approach to defense. Chopping the
Bishop on g4 would have led to a lost
endgame, but guess what? You said
that Glaurung was thinking just two
seconds per move; suppose it got into
a position which it could not solve in just
two seconds? There is a possibility of
a draw.

Keeping all the pieces on just makes
it that much easier for the attacker to
stumble upon a forced mate-- even
with just two seconds per move; and
the defender? The extra pieces get in
one another's way.

My suggestion is to simply remove
GetClub's opponents' QN before
starting play. Then, instead of one
side losing the whole way, we would
see a true contest of sorts. This
would also effectively eliminate the
whole issue of computers playing
openings by rote; both sides would
calculate and evaluate and only then
decide upon their own moves.


-- help bot










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Old November 17th 08, 04:33 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Peter win Master Level at GetClub.

On Nov 17, 9:17*am, help bot wrote:
On Nov 16, 12:24*am, Sanny wrote:





Peter played with Master Level using his computer program. Glaurung
2.1


Glaurung 2.1 was thinking for 2 sec / move
GetClub Master Level was thinking: 500 sec / move.


So GetClub was taking 250 times more time, Still GetClub lost the
game.


6. Nf3xd4{392} Ng4xf2{16}


Here on 6th move Glaurung gave sacrifice of its knight for a pawn.


After 40 ply it recover a extra Bishop. Since Master Level cannot see
40 ply deep it overlooked this move.


I am amazed to see how Glaurung find a sacrifice 40 ply deep.


Game Played between peter and master at GetClub.com


---------------------------------------------------------------------------**-----
peter: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...550&game=Chess
---------------------------------------------------------------------------**-----


White -- Black
(master) -- (peter)


1. c2-c4{0} e7-e5{10}
2. Nb1-c3{0} Ng8-f6{20}
3. e2-e4{1096} Bf8-c5{210}
4. Ng1-f3{328} Nf6-g4{14}
5. d2-d4{692} e5xd4{12}
6. Nf3xd4{392} Ng4xf2{16}
7. Ke1-f2{346} Qd8-f6{72}
8. Kf2-e3{358} Nb8-c6{14}
9. Nc3-b5{536} Ke8-g8{14}
10. Bf1-e2{436} Rf8-e8{14}
11. a2-a3{336} Qf6-e5{14}
12. Be2-f3{490} a7-a5{28}
13. Ra1-a2{1440} f7-f5{6064}
14. g2-g3{0} f5-e4{18}
15. Bf3-g2{832} d7-d5{1012}
16. Rh1-f1{0} Nc6-d4{14}
17. Nb5-d4{456} Bc8-g4{62}
18. Qd1-d2{402} Bg4-f3{84}
19. b2-b3{412} d5-c4{16}
20. Ra2-c2{598} b7-b5{20}
21. b3-b4{492} Bc5-b6{78}
22. b4-a5{1010} Ra8-a5{20}
23. Qd2-c3{334} Re8-a8{18}
24. Rc2-a2{456} Bf3-g2{252}
25. Rf1-f4{598} g7-g5{16}
26. Rf4-f2{560} Bg2-h3{18}
27. Ra2-d2{662} Bh3-g4{18}
28. Rf2-f1{396} Ra5-a6{18}
29. Bc1-b2{406} Bb6-c5{18}
30. a3-a4{844} Ra6-a4{26}
31. Rf1-f2{930} Ra8-d8{20}
32. Rf2-f1{744} Ra4-b4{16}
33. Bb2-a1{608} Rb4-b3{14}
34. Qc3-b3{654} c4-b3{12}
35. Rf1-f2{1330} b3-b2{24}
36. Ba1-b2{580} Qe5-e6{8}
37. Rf2-f1{1346} Qe6-b3{90}
38. Ke3-f2{138} e4-e3{14}
39. Kf2-g2{380} Qb3-d5{14}
40. Kg2-g1{996}
---------------------------------------------------------------------------**-----
*peter: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...550&game=Chess


Can anyone spot any mistake in GetClub's game?


* First of all, Glaurund did not see 40 plys ahead,
(and even if it could, it would not be looking at the
inferior line played by the GetClub program).

* This opening is very similar to something folks
around here used to call the Fried Liver Attack,
possibly also known as the Wilkes-Barre.

* White erred first of all by playing both e4 and
c4, which weakens the dark squares; careful
defense could alleviate such a problem, but
instead GC tried to calculate its way through
a maze of sharp variations, and lost its way.

* Tactically, the simple 4. Be2 would have
circumvented the Knight sacrifice, but this is
a poor arrangement for White. *I prefer the
idea of a Kingside fianchetto, even if it may
become necessary to play p-h3 to keep the
Black steed at bay.

* Anyway, after the sacrifice on f2 White was
under the gun the rest of the way, and by
mid-game it was clear what the result would
likely be. *Take a gander at GetClub's horrific
13. Ra2; this is the sort of thing which so
often comes up in tactical skirmishes, and
is the hallmark of a very confused mind-- er,
chess engine.

* In attempting to defend such a precarious
position, a /coherent development/ of the
pieces must be figured out, but GC always
jumbles its men about in a fog of confusion.
This in turn creates numerous opportunities
for the opponent to land a decisive tactical
blow-- or perhaps two or three.

* My machine spotted a forced checkmate
as early as the move 35. ... b2, vacating the
b3 square for its Queen. *But even before
that, it had Black a piece or so ahead for
many moves. * I did not realize that the
attack was quite so powerful; in fact, I had
the impression (though I never played
this line from either side except in casual
blitz games) that White was supposed to
emerge on top-- if he defended perfectly.
After analysing this game, I have changed
my mind.

* So then, how does one properly play
this sort of opening? *Well, it's hard to go
wrong with the old adage "Knights before
Bishops"; in other words, the early moves
might go:

*1. c4 *e5

*2. Nc3 *Nf6

*3. Nf3

* I suspect that apart from fetching moves
by rote from a database, this sort of thing
can be accomplished by giving a small
bonus for piece-development in the early
opening. *Note how moves like 3. e4 do
nothing to promote castling, whereas the
move 3. Nf3 gets one obstruction out of
the White King's way (if he castles King-
side).

* One more thing; the move 18. Qd2 is
yet another symptom of a disasterous
approach to defense. *Chopping the
Bishop on g4 would have led to a lost
endgame, but guess what? *You said
that Glaurung was thinking just two
seconds per move; suppose it got into
a position which it could not solve in just
two seconds? *There is a possibility of
a draw.

* Keeping all the pieces on just makes
it that much easier for the attacker to
stumble upon a forced mate-- even
with just two seconds per move; and
the defender? *The extra pieces get in
one another's way.

* My suggestion is to simply remove
GetClub's opponents' QN before
starting play. *Then, instead of one
side losing the whole way, we would
see a true contest of sorts. *This
would also effectively eliminate the
whole issue of computers playing
openings by rote; both sides would
calculate and evaluate and only then
decide upon their own moves.


Thanks for your Analysis.

In this game I find a few weaknesses and removed them So that GetClub
plays stronger games.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
  #10   Report Post  
Old November 17th 08, 07:24 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Sep 2007
Posts: 184
Default Weakness removed.

Sanny writes:

There was one weakness in the game that was removed. So that Now it
will not fall in such traps.


What kind of weakness? I had already started a new game, see below.
Do you think getclub has made any bad moves so far because of this
weakness? I can terminate this game and start a new one if you want
to. Or is it enough to just reboot the computer and continue this
game?

[Date "2008.11.16"]
[White "GetClub master level"]
[Black "Glaurung 2.1, 2 sec / move"]

1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. e4 Bc5 4. Nf3 d6 5. Nd5 Nf6 6. d3 Ng4 7. Be3 Nxe3 8.
fxe3 O-O 9. a3 Ne7 10. b4


Restart game by Rebooting So that new version of the game starts.

I have deleted this game from database. So that when you restart you
can start a new game.

With the weakness removed the GetClub will play much stronger now.


I have started a new game. It isn't finished yet, but after getclub
played 19. Bxe6, it looks like it will be an easy win for Glaurung.

[Date "2008.11.16"]
[White "GetClub master level"]
[Black "Glaurung 2.1, 2 sec / move"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Nxc6 bxc6 7. Bc4
Bc5 8. O-O O-O 9. Bg5 h6 10. Bxf6 Qxf6 11. Qd3 Bd4 12. Rab1 d6 13. Ne2 Bb6
14. Qb3 Qg6 15. Ng3 Rb8 16. Qd3 a5 17. Rfd1 Bc5 18. h3 Be6 19. Bxe6 fxe6
20. Rf1 Rf6 21. b3 Rbf8 22. Nh1 Rf3

--
Peter Osterlund -
http://web.telia.com/~u89404340
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