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Old January 14th 09, 06:51 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Was Bobby Fischer the Greatest Player Ever?

In article 81a61f88-ff08-4b3d-8b50-
,
says...

Bobby Fisher showed what he showed.
What he did not, it is useless speculation.

Joking: Maybe because America does/did not have big chess players,
he is little pushed..... /Joking

When Philip the Macedonian ( father of Alexander the Great )
swallowed Greece and claimed his army can run through Sparta,

he got just a simple answer: "IF"

Macedonians did let Sparta be and went to conquer Persia.


--
Poutnik
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Old January 14th 09, 01:40 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Was Bobby Fischer the Greatest Player Ever?

On Jan 14, 1:51*am, Poutnik
wrote:
In article 81a61f88-ff08-4b3d-8b50-
,
says...

Bobby Fisher showed what he showed.
What he did not, it is useless speculation.

Joking: Maybe because America does/did not have big chess players,
he is little pushed..... /Joking

When Philip the Macedonian ( father of Alexander the Great )
swallowed Greece and claimed his army can run through Sparta,

he got just a simple answer: "IF"

Macedonians did let Sparta be and went to conquer Persia. *


I believe you may have garbled that story. The way I heard it was
that Philip sent a letter to the Laconians, not the Spartans, saying
something to the effect of "If I invade your country, I will lay waste
to your lands, kill your men and enslave your women." The Laconians
sent back the one-word reply "If."
Today the word "laconian" signifies an extreme economy of words,
saying much with little. Whether this story is the original basis for
that usage, or if the story is even true, I can't say.
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Old January 14th 09, 03:00 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default Was Bobby Fischer the Greatest Player Ever?

On Jan 14, 8:40*am, Taylor Kingston wrote:
On Jan 14, 1:51*am, Poutnik
wrote:





In article 81a61f88-ff08-4b3d-8b50-
,
says...


Bobby Fisher showed what he showed.
What he did not, it is useless speculation.


Joking: Maybe because America does/did not have big chess players,
he is little pushed..... /Joking


When Philip the Macedonian ( father of Alexander the Great )
swallowed Greece and claimed his army can run through Sparta,


he got just a simple answer: "IF"


Macedonians did let Sparta be and went to conquer Persia. *


* I believe you may have garbled that story. The way I heard it was
that Philip sent a letter to the Laconians, not the Spartans, saying
something to the effect of "If I invade your country, I will lay waste
to your lands, kill your men and enslave your women." The Laconians
sent back the one-word reply "If."
* Today the word "laconian" signifies an extreme economy of words,
saying much with little. Whether this story is the original basis for
that usage, or if the story is even true, I can't say.


It looks like I must correct myself. I should have said "laconic"
rather than "laconian" (I actually knew that, but the morning coffee
hadn't kicked in yet). More to the point, it appears Laconia and
Sparta are more or less synonymous, Laconia being the region
surrounding the city of Sparta in ancient Greece:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconic

So Mr. Poutnik's account was basically accurate. The Wikipedia
article gives many examples of laconic wit, including the "if"
response to King Philip.
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Old January 14th 09, 03:09 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default OT - Laconia ( Was Bobby Fischer the Greatest Player Ever? )

In article 925f8cac-2479-4bc5-bf89-
,
says...

When Philip the Macedonian ( father of Alexander the Great )
swallowed Greece and claimed his army can run through Sparta,

he got just a simple answer: "IF"

Macedonians did let Sparta be and went to conquer Persia. *


I believe you may have garbled that story. The way I heard it was
that Philip sent a letter to the Laconians, not the Spartans, saying
something to the effect of "If I invade your country, I will lay waste
to your lands, kill your men and enslave your women." The Laconians
sent back the one-word reply "If."
Today the word "laconian" signifies an extreme economy of words,
saying much with little. Whether this story is the original basis for
that usage, or if the story is even true, I can't say.


I do not think I garbled it, you are just pointing out other story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia

Laconia, also known as Lacedaemonia, is a prefecture in Greece. Laconia
has the legal status of a prefecture, with Sparti (Sparta) its
administrative capital. Its main towns and cities are Amyclae,
Areopolis, Gytheion, Molaoi, Monemvasia, Mystras, Neapoli and Sellasia.
It encompasses Cape Malea and Cape Tainaron and a large part of the Mani
Peninsula.

But it was adressed to Lacedaemonians for memories:

"The wanderer, say to Lacedaemonians,
that we lay here dead as ordered by our laws"

( I have not handy the msg in english,
so freely translated, not being native english )

--
Poutnik
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Old January 14th 09, 03:54 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default OT - Laconia ( Was Bobby Fischer the Greatest Player Ever? )

On Jan 14, 10:09*am, Poutnik
wrote:
In article 925f8cac-2479-4bc5-bf89-
,
says...







When Philip the Macedonian ( father of Alexander the Great )
swallowed Greece and claimed his army can run through Sparta,


he got just a simple answer: "IF"


Macedonians did let Sparta be and went to conquer Persia. *


* I believe you may have garbled that story. The way I heard it was
that Philip sent a letter to the Laconians, not the Spartans, saying
something to the effect of "If I invade your country, I will lay waste
to your lands, kill your men and enslave your women." The Laconians
sent back the one-word reply "If."
* Today the word "laconian" signifies an extreme economy of words,
saying much with little. Whether this story is the original basis for
that usage, or if the story is even true, I can't say.


I do not think I garbled it, you are just pointing out other story.


Yes, you're right. That's why I posted a self-correction. :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia

Laconia, also known as Lacedaemonia, is a prefecture in Greece. Laconia
has the legal status of a prefecture, with Sparti (Sparta) its
administrative capital. Its main towns and cities are Amyclae,
Areopolis, Gytheion, Molaoi, Monemvasia, Mystras, Neapoli and Sellasia.
It encompasses Cape Malea and Cape Tainaron and a large part of the Mani
Peninsula.

But it was adressed to Lacedaemonians for memories:

"The wanderer, say to Lacedaemonians,
that we lay here dead as ordered by our laws"

( I have not handy the msg in english,
so freely translated, not being native english )

--
Poutnik- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -




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Old January 14th 09, 04:23 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default OT - Laconia ( Was Bobby Fischer the Greatest Player Ever? )

In article dbf09436-86bb-4f7c-b048-ebf8edd6b681
@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com, says...

I do not think I garbled it, you are just pointing out other story.


Yes, you're right. That's why I posted a self-correction. :-)

I am sorry, I have read your other post after sending my reply.

In mentined WP article is said that
origin of "Laconic answer" is : answer given by Spartans to Athenians


--
Poutnik
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Old January 14th 09, 05:15 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default OT - Laconia ( Was Bobby Fischer the Greatest Player Ever? )

On Jan 14, 11:23*am, Poutnik
wrote:
In article dbf09436-86bb-4f7c-b048-ebf8edd6b681
@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com, says...

I do not think I garbled it, you are just pointing out other story.


* Yes, you're right. That's why I posted a self-correction. :-)


I am sorry, I have read your other post after sending my reply.

In mentined WP article is said that
origin of "Laconic answer" is : answer given by Spartans to Athenians


Thank heavens we were not talking about Draco, or even Lesbos!

I'm not sure I've heard it in American English in New England, but
English-propre uses a trope version of laconic, 'lacks-a-daisycal'
meaning casual, always mildly derogatory.

Cordially, Phil Innes

--
Poutnik


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Old January 14th 09, 06:16 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default OT - Laconia ( Was Bobby Fischer the Greatest Player Ever? )

On Jan 14, 12:15*pm, wrote:
On Jan 14, 11:23*am, Poutnik
wrote:

In article dbf09436-86bb-4f7c-b048-ebf8edd6b681
@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com, says...


I do not think I garbled it, you are just pointing out other story.


* Yes, you're right. That's why I posted a self-correction. :-)


I am sorry, I have read your other post after sending my reply.


In mentined WP article is said that
origin of "Laconic answer" is : answer given by Spartans to Athenians


Thank heavens we were not talking about Draco, or even Lesbos!

I'm not sure I've heard it in American English in New England, but
English-propre uses a trope version of laconic, 'lacks-a-daisycal' [sic]
meaning casual, always mildly derogatory.


Um, Phil, I don't know what dictionary you may be using, but if it
says that I'd throw it in the trash. The origins of "laconic" and
"lackadaisical" are quite different. Laconic, as we have seen derives
from a region of ancient Greece. On the other hand, as you can see
he

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lackadaisical

"lackadaisical" derives from the English expression "alack the day," a
phrase lamenting bad luck. A bit more information is found in "The
Barnhart Concise Dictionary of Etymology" (1995):

"lackadaisical adj. 1768, affectedly languishing; formed from
English lackadaisy, interj., alas, alack (1748) + suffix -ical.
Lackadaisy is an alteration of the earlier lack-a-day (1695), a
shortened and altered form of the phrase alack the day (1592)."

So "lackadaisical" is in no way a "version of laconic," trope or
otherwise. Nor is it Andean. No doubt you will angrily insist you are
still right, and that it proves Paul Morphy was only a 2300 player.
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Old January 14th 09, 06:47 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default OT - Laconia ( Was Bobby Fischer the Greatest Player Ever? )

On Jan 14, 1:16*pm, Taylor Kingston wrote:
On Jan 14, 12:15*pm, wrote:



On Jan 14, 11:23*am, Poutnik
wrote:


In article dbf09436-86bb-4f7c-b048-ebf8edd6b681
@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com, says...


I do not think I garbled it, you are just pointing out other story.


* Yes, you're right. That's why I posted a self-correction. :-)


I am sorry, I have read your other post after sending my reply.


In mentined WP article is said that
origin of "Laconic answer" is : answer given by Spartans to Athenians


Thank heavens we were not talking about Draco, or even Lesbos!


I'm not sure I've heard it in American English in New England, but
English-propre uses a trope version of laconic, 'lacks-a-daisycal' [sic]
meaning casual, always mildly derogatory.


* Um, Phil, I don't know what dictionary you may be using, but if it
says that I'd throw it in the trash.


Dear Taylor, how good to hear from you after all these hours. I don't
think I mentioned any dictionary, though...

The origins of "laconic" and
"lackadaisical" are quite different. Laconic, as we have seen derives
from a region of ancient Greece. On the other hand, as you can see
he

*http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lackadaisical

"lackadaisical" derives from the English expression "alack the day," a
phrase lamenting bad luck. A bit more information is found in "The
Barnhart Concise Dictionary of Etymology" (1995):


But these are dictionaries of popular modern approach, and rather sad
representatives of any etymology! If you want something more
considered, shall we say, you must go a bit deeper, stop believing
that all that's written is all there is, that it is even true, and so
forth.

* "lackadaisical adj. 1768,


ha! 1768!

affectedly languishing; formed from
English lackadaisy, interj., alas, alack (1748) + suffix -ical.
Lackadaisy is an alteration of the earlier lack-a-day (1695), a
shortened and altered form of the phrase alack the day (1592)."

* So "lackadaisical" is in no way a "version of laconic," trope or
otherwise. Nor is it Andean. No doubt you will angrily insist you are
still right, and that it proves Paul Morphy was only a 2300 player.


Await your anxiety on Morphy.

At least you found a late Elizabeth reference, which ain't bad, though
hardly good.

Anglo Norman used LACHE: sluggish. And that is what we call a loan-
word, from Anglo Saxon in this instance. So, not 1595 - but more like
592.

LACHE: to catch, to take [A. S.] "To lache fische" //Legend of Pope
Gregory p. 17, hence sometimes to embrace.

LACK: to blame [South] "With-owten lac," without fault, Ywaine and
Gawin, p. 264.

LACKADAISICAL: very affected, generally applied to young ladies
[behavior] they being concieited, trite

LACCHESSE: Negligence [Anglo Norman]

The firste poynte of slouthe I calle
Lachesse, and is the chef of alle.

//Gower, MS Soc. Antiq. 134 f. 103.

In Elizabethan times the formation LACED~ occurs, as in Laced-Mutton;
a whore, a prostitute [being slack of moral fibre, you see] According
to Moor and Formby [circa 1y60] the term was not then obsolete. It
occurs in Shakespeare.

The [BTW] form you selected is better or more commonly presented thus:
LACKADAISY; alack ; alas [var. dial].

I am sorry to preceed your word usage some 300 years, refute your
sources from the language itself, and your earliest usage by 1,000
years, nefvermind your dictionary by 400 years [Halliwell].

But thanks for playing

Cordially, Phil Innes
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Old January 14th 09, 06:54 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
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Default OT - Laconia ( Was Bobby Fischer the Greatest Player Ever? )

On Jan 14, 1:47*pm, wrote:
On Jan 14, 1:16*pm, Taylor Kingston wrote:





On Jan 14, 12:15*pm, wrote:


On Jan 14, 11:23*am, Poutnik
wrote:


In article dbf09436-86bb-4f7c-b048-ebf8edd6b681
@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com, says...


I do not think I garbled it, you are just pointing out other story.


* Yes, you're right. That's why I posted a self-correction. :-)


I am sorry, I have read your other post after sending my reply.


In mentined WP article is said that
origin of "Laconic answer" is : answer given by Spartans to Athenians


Thank heavens we were not talking about Draco, or even Lesbos!


I'm not sure I've heard it in American English in New England, but
English-propre uses a trope version of laconic, 'lacks-a-daisycal' [sic]
meaning casual, always mildly derogatory.


* Um, Phil, I don't know what dictionary you may be using, but if it
says that I'd throw it in the trash.


Dear Taylor, how good to hear from you after all these hours. I don't
think I mentioned any dictionary, though...

The origins of "laconic" and
"lackadaisical" are quite different. Laconic, as we have seen derives
from a region of ancient Greece. On the other hand, as you can see
he


*http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lackadaisical


"lackadaisical" derives from the English expression "alack the day," a
phrase lamenting bad luck. A bit more information is found in "The
Barnhart Concise Dictionary of Etymology" (1995):


But these are dictionaries of popular modern approach, and rather sad
representatives of any etymology! If you want something more
considered, shall we say, you must go a bit deeper, stop believing
that all that's written is all there is, that it is even true, and so
forth.

* "lackadaisical adj. 1768,


ha! 1768!

affectedly languishing; formed from
English lackadaisy, interj., alas, alack (1748) + suffix -ical.
Lackadaisy is an alteration of the earlier lack-a-day (1695), a
shortened and altered form of the phrase alack the day (1592)."


* So "lackadaisical" is in no way a "version of laconic," trope or
otherwise. Nor is it Andean. No doubt you will angrily insist you are
still right, and that it proves Paul Morphy was only a 2300 player.


Await your anxiety on Morphy.

At least you found a late Elizabeth reference, which ain't bad, though
hardly good.

Anglo Norman used LACHE: sluggish. And that is what we call a loan-
word, from Anglo Saxon in this instance. So, not 1595 - but more like
592.

LACHE: to catch, to take [A. S.] *"To lache fische" //Legend of Pope
Gregory p. 17, hence sometimes to embrace.

LACK: to blame [South] "With-owten lac," without fault, Ywaine and
Gawin, p. 264.

LACKADAISICAL: very affected, generally applied to young ladies
[behavior] they being concieited, trite

LACCHESSE: Negligence [Anglo Norman]

The firste poynte of slouthe I calle
Lachesse, and is the chef of alle.

//Gower, MS Soc. Antiq. 134 f. 103.

In Elizabethan times the formation LACED~ occurs, as in Laced-Mutton;
a whore, a prostitute [being slack of moral fibre, you see] According
to Moor and Formby [circa 1y60] the term was not then obsolete. It
occurs in Shakespeare.

The [BTW] form you selected is better or more commonly presented thus:
LACKADAISY; alack ; alas *[var. dial].

I am sorry to preceed your word usage some 300 years, refute your
sources from the language itself, and your earliest usage by 1,000
years, nefvermind your dictionary by 400 years [Halliwell].

But thanks for playing *

Cordially, Phil Innes


As usual, our Phil, rather than admit an error, produces a blizzard
of irrelevance trying to confuse the issue. Just as he failed to show
Nunn assigning a 2300 rating to Morphy, nothing here connects
"lackadaisical" with Laconia. So typical.
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