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Old April 10th 07, 01:42 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default A Serious Problem with MonRoi and the US Championship

Joe Lux has uncovered a serious problem with Monroi. If he did not
discover it, he is the first to report it.

It seems that two newspapers have refused to publish game scores that
first appeared on the Monroi website, because MonRoi is claiming a
copyright on the games.

It is well established that scores of a chess game cannot be
copyrighted. However, the USCF is in no position to go to court and
fight a courtcase over this.

MonRoi is listed as a co-sponsor of the US Championship. The current
rules REQUIRE the use of MonRoi at the US Championship.

However, we expect the games of the US Championship to have widspread
media publicity. If MonRoi asserts a copyright claim, even an invalid
claim, that will slow down or hault the publicity we expect to gain
from the US Championship.

I see no choice in the matter: We must tell MonRoi to stop asserting
any claim to copyright of any scores of chess games. Failing that, we
must BAN the use of MonRoi in any chess tournament, including the US
Chess Championship.

The complete posting by Joe Lux follows:

ost:39039 Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: Monroi
and the US Championship
While "campaigning" in New England this weekend, some interesting
developments have occured with serious ramifications for the chess
community as a whole.

Stephen Dann has written a chess column for the Worcester Telegram and
Gazette for over 30 years. Two weeks ago, he submitted a column that
included a game sco Curdo-Rizzitano. The newspaper refused to
include the gamescore. It was included on the Monroi website. It seems
if you register to use the site, you have agreed to recognize Monroi's
copyright on game scores.

A week ago, Harold Dondis had the same problem at the Boston Globe,
where he has written a column for 50 years.

Both papers are own by the NY Times. I called Dylan McClain this
morning. He has discussed that matter already with NYT corporate
lawyers, and is trying to reach Bill Hall.

I called Glenn Petersen, who probably has the most practical
experience on publishing games and copyright laws in the chess
community. He says there had been court cases where unannotated games
are free from copyright laws, but that now with the internet, new
rulings might be required.

Monroi will be recording all the games from the US Championship. Will
they now hold hostage the distribution of these games around the
world?

This is the type of issue that USCF must address. How does this effect
Chess Life, and every other publication of chess? Is this what we can
expect from endorsing the Monroi machine? I hope we don't need to find
a chess attorney who can do pro bono work to stop Monroi, but we have
to be prepared for that possibility. Maybe Monroi can be encouraged to
change its policy before it goes that far.

Does anyone know about other chess journalists that have been effected
by Monroi?

Chessically yours, Joe Lux

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Old April 10th 07, 03:44 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Oct 2006
Posts: 323
Default A Serious Problem with MonRoi and the US Championship

On Apr 10, 8:42 am, "samsloan" wrote:
Joe Lux has uncovered a serious problem with Monroi. If he did not
discover it, he is the first to report it.

It seems that two newspapers have refused to publish game scores that
first appeared on the Monroi website, because MonRoi is claiming a
copyright on the games.


It is well established that scores of a chess game cannot be
copyrighted. However, the USCF is in no position to go to court and
fight a courtcase over this.


I believe it is well-established that *unannotated* games cannot be
copywritten.

MonRoi is listed as a co-sponsor of the US Championship. The current
rules REQUIRE the use of MonRoi at the US Championship.

However, we expect the games of the US Championship to have widspread
media publicity. If MonRoi asserts a copyright claim, even an invalid
claim, that will slow down or hault the publicity we expect to gain
from the US Championship.


Why?

I see no choice in the matter: We must tell MonRoi to stop asserting
any claim to copyright of any scores of chess games. Failing that, we
must BAN the use of MonRoi in any chess tournament, including the US
Chess Championship.


It's a non-issue Sam. If the games are unannotated, then they have no
claim. Period. Your dialog of 'must tell MonRoi..' and 'BAN the use of
MonRoi...' is far too aggressive in nature and lacks any useful
compromise.

This is a big part of your 'Bull In the China Shop', Table-Pounding
mentality.

You should seek a reasonable compromise first.

Have you spoken to MonRoi? You represent the USCF, Don't you? I think
you should take up the banner and get into a useful dialog with
MonRoi.

We wait to hear your progress in this matter. Thanks again Sam for
taking this issue on. The entire USCF membership is counting on you.

Regards,
Mark

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Old April 11th 07, 04:33 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
Rob Rob is offline
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
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Default A Serious Problem with MonRoi and the US Championship

On Apr 10, 7:42 am, "samsloan" wrote:
Joe Lux has uncovered a serious problem with Monroi. If he did not
discover it, he is the first to report it.

It seems that two newspapers have refused to publish game scores that
first appeared on the Monroi website, because MonRoi is claiming a
copyright on the games.

It is well established that scores of a chess game cannot be
copyrighted. However, the USCF is in no position to go to court and
fight a courtcase over this.

MonRoi is listed as a co-sponsor of the US Championship. The current
rules REQUIRE the use of MonRoi at the US Championship.

However, we expect the games of the US Championship to have widspread
media publicity. If MonRoi asserts a copyright claim, even an invalid
claim, that will slow down or hault the publicity we expect to gain
from the US Championship.

I see no choice in the matter: We must tell MonRoi to stop asserting
any claim to copyright of any scores of chess games. Failing that, we
must BAN the use of MonRoi in any chess tournament, including the US
Chess Championship.

The complete posting by Joe Lux follows:

ost:39039 Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: Monroi
and the US Championship
While "campaigning" in New England this weekend, some interesting
developments have occured with serious ramifications for the chess
community as a whole.

Stephen Dann has written a chess column for the Worcester Telegram and
Gazette for over 30 years. Two weeks ago, he submitted a column that
included a game sco Curdo-Rizzitano. The newspaper refused to
include the gamescore. It was included on the Monroi website. It seems
if you register to use the site, you have agreed to recognize Monroi's
copyright on game scores.

A week ago, Harold Dondis had the same problem at the Boston Globe,
where he has written a column for 50 years.

Both papers are own by the NY Times. I called Dylan McClain this
morning. He has discussed that matter already with NYT corporate
lawyers, and is trying to reach Bill Hall.

I called Glenn Petersen, who probably has the most practical
experience on publishing games and copyright laws in the chess
community. He says there had been court cases where unannotated games
are free from copyright laws, but that now with the internet, new
rulings might be required.

Monroi will be recording all the games from the US Championship. Will
they now hold hostage the distribution of these games around the
world?

This is the type of issue that USCF must address. How does this effect
Chess Life, and every other publication of chess? Is this what we can
expect from endorsing the Monroi machine? I hope we don't need to find
a chess attorney who can do pro bono work to stop Monroi, but we have
to be prepared for that possibility. Maybe Monroi can be encouraged to
change its policy before it goes that far.

Does anyone know about other chess journalists that have been effected
by Monroi?

Chessically yours, Joe Lux


It's a stupid claim. It would be like saying that a Royal Typewriters
held the copyrights to every box score in baseball they were used to
record. It's a marketing ploy by MonRoi ,if it is true, and nothing
more. Even a cheap, bad attorney coould win this case. I don't know
whay a newspaper wouldn't print the games. Has anyone published the
games anywhere that has been recorded bu MonRoi? I suspect they have
and nothing came of it.
Rob



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Old April 11th 07, 10:00 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default A Serious Problem with MonRoi and the US Championship




Rob wrote:

It's a stupid claim. It would be like saying that a Royal Typewriters
held the copyrights to every box score in baseball they were used to
record. It's a marketing ploy by MonRoi ,if it is true, and nothing
more. Even a cheap, bad attorney coould win this case. I don't know
whay a newspaper wouldn't print the games. Has anyone published the
games anywhere that has been recorded by MonRoi? I suspect they have
and nothing came of it.


If not, I would be happy to post any tournament games that MonRoi
claims copyright to on my webpage http://www.guymacon.com/ and
to then challenge them to sue me for copyright violation. I don't
think they will and I have the resources to win if they do.

Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/

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Old April 11th 07, 09:15 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Aug 2006
Posts: 60
Default A Serious Problem with MonRoi and the US Championship

On Apr 11, 4:00 am, Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:
Rob wrote:
It's a stupid claim. It would be like saying that a Royal Typewriters
held the copyrights to every box score in baseball they were used to
record. It's a marketing ploy by MonRoi ,if it is true, and nothing
more. Even a cheap, bad attorney coould win this case. I don't know
whay a newspaper wouldn't print the games. Has anyone published the
games anywhere that has been recorded by MonRoi? I suspect they have
and nothing came of it.


If not, I would be happy to post any tournament games that MonRoi
claims copyright to on my webpage http://www.guymacon.com/ and
to then challenge them to sue me for copyright violation. I don't
think they will and I have the resources to win if they do.

Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/


Wonderful idea! I understand the Jerry Hanken is the spokesperson/
salesman for MonRoi? Is that true? Did he receive any payment to
infulence this decision?

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Old April 11th 07, 11:26 PM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,305
Default A Serious Problem with MonRoi and the US Championship

Rob Mitchell wrote:
On Apr 11, 4:00 am, Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:
Rob wrote:
It's a stupid claim. It would be like saying that a Royal Typewriters
held the copyrights to every box score in baseball they were used to
record. It's a marketing ploy by MonRoi ,if it is true, and nothing
more. Even a cheap, bad attorney coould win this case. I don't know
whay a newspaper wouldn't print the games. Has anyone published the
games anywhere that has been recorded by MonRoi? I suspect they have
and nothing came of it.

If not, I would be happy to post any tournament games that MonRoi
claims copyright to on my webpage http://www.guymacon.com/ and
to then challenge them to sue me for copyright violation. I don't
think they will and I have the resources to win if they do.

Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/


Wonderful idea! I understand the Jerry Hanken is the spokesperson/
salesman for MonRoi? Is that true? Did he receive any payment to
infulence this decision?


Just a new suit.

--
Kenneth Sloan
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/
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Old April 12th 07, 04:03 AM posted to rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Mar 2006
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Default A Serious Problem with MonRoi and the US Championship

On Apr 11, 5:00 am, Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:
Rob wrote:
It's a stupid claim. It would be like saying that a Royal Typewriters
held the copyrights to every box score in baseball they were used to
record. It's a marketing ploy byMonRoi,if it is true, and nothing
more. Even a cheap, bad attorney coould win this case. I don't know
whay a newspaper wouldn't print the games. Has anyone published the
games anywhere that has been recorded byMonRoi? I suspect they have
and nothing came of it.


If not, I would be happy to post any tournament games thatMonRoi
claims copyright to on my webpage http://www.guymacon.com/ and
to then challenge them to sue me for copyright violation. I don't
think they will and I have the resources to win if they do.

Guy Macon
http://www.guymacon.com/


I second that. I will publish the games on my site as well. Someone
send me the game scores after it is done to admin at chessmob dot org.

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Old April 12th 07, 05:56 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 3,390
Default A Serious Problem with MonRoi and the US Championship

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:26:06 -0500, Kenneth Sloan
wrote:


Wonderful idea! I understand the Jerry Hanken is the spokesperson/
salesman for MonRoi? Is that true? Did he receive any payment to
infulence this decision?


Just a new suit.


with belt and suspenders ?
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