Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old March 22nd 15, 08:26 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 81
Default Sam Sloan, there is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning ChessTraps" by Irving Chernev.

Bs'd

There is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning Chess Traps" by Irving Chernev.

It ends with "Or 18....B-Q2 19 N-N7 mate" but there is no mate after the knight goes to N7. Please explain.
  #2   Report Post  
Old March 28th 15, 08:12 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,170
Default Sam Sloan, there is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning ChessTraps" by Irving Chernev.

On Sunday, 22 March 2015 20:26:18 UTC, Eliyahu wrote:
Bs'd

There is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning Chess Traps" by Irving Chernev.

It ends with "Or 18....B-Q2 19 N-N7 mate" but there is no mate after the knight goes to N7. Please explain.


Eliyahu,
Could you please post the rest of the game, or a link to the score of the game. Or the game players.
  #3   Report Post  
Old March 29th 15, 11:09 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 81
Default Sam Sloan, there is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning ChessTraps" by Irving Chernev.

On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 11:12:09 AM UTC+3, Offramp wrote:
On Sunday, 22 March 2015 20:26:18 UTC, Eliyahu wrote:
Bs'd

There is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning Chess Traps" by Irving Chernev.

It ends with "Or 18....B-Q2 19 N-N7 mate" but there is no mate after the knight goes to N7. Please explain.


Eliyahu,
Could you please post the rest of the game, or a link to the score of the game. Or the game players.



Bs'd

Here it is:

Sicilian Defense

1. P-K4 P-QB4
2. N-KB3 N-QB3
3. P-Q4 PxP
4. NxP N-B3
5. N-QB3 P-K3
6. B-K2 B-N5
7. O-O (1) BxN
8. PxB NxP
9. B-B3 NxQBP? (2)
10. Q-Q3 N-Q4 (3)
11. BxN PxB
12. R-K1ch K-B1
13. N-B5! P-Q3
14. NxNP! N-K4 (4)
15. N-R5!! B-K3 (5)
16. RxN! PxR
17. B-R3ch K-K1
18. Q-N5ch! Q-Q2
19. N-B6ch

White wins the Queen

1 7. B-B3 is the safer course
2 But this is too much of a good thing. 9 ... P-Q4 is better
3 If 10 ... N-R5; 11. B-R3 gives White a powerful game; or if 10; ... NxN; 11. QxN (Q4), N-Q4; 12. BxN, PxB 13. QxNP, R-B1; 14. R-K1ch is sheer murder.
4 If 14. ... KxN 15. Q-N3ch, K-B3 (15. .... K-B1; 16. B-R6 mate) 16. Q-N5 is mate.
5 If 15. ... NxQ; 16. B-R6ch, K-N1; 17. R-K8ch! QxR; 18. N-B6 mates black.
6. Or 18. ... B-Q2; 19. N-N7 mate.

I emailed Sam Sloane, because he wrote the introduction, and his email is in the front of the book, and it says he has the copyright of the book.
So I suppose he published this edition, and therefore it is his baby.

He said that I am right, and the trap is simply not correct.

  #4   Report Post  
Old March 29th 15, 02:56 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Oct 2004
Posts: 668
Default Sam Sloan, there is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning ChessTraps" by Irving Chernev.

Am 29.03.2015 um 12:09 schrieb Eliyahu:
On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 11:12:09 AM UTC+3, Offramp wrote:
On Sunday, 22 March 2015 20:26:18 UTC, Eliyahu wrote:
Bs'd

There is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning Chess Traps" by Irving Chernev.

It ends with "Or 18....B-Q2 19 N-N7 mate" but there is no mate after the knight goes to N7. Please explain.


Eliyahu,
Could you please post the rest of the game, or a link to the score of the game. Or the game players.



Bs'd

Here it is:

Sicilian Defense

1. P-K4 P-QB4
2. N-KB3 N-QB3
3. P-Q4 PxP
4. NxP N-B3
5. N-QB3 P-K3
6. B-K2 B-N5
7. O-O (1) BxN
8. PxB NxP
9. B-B3 NxQBP? (2)
10. Q-Q3 N-Q4 (3)
11. BxN PxB
12. R-K1ch K-B1
13. N-B5! P-Q3
14. NxNP! N-K4 (4)
15. N-R5!! B-K3 (5)
16. RxN! PxR
17. B-R3ch K-K1
18. Q-N5ch! Q-Q2
19. N-B6ch

White wins the Queen

1 7. B-B3 is the safer course
2 But this is too much of a good thing. 9 ... P-Q4 is better
3 If 10 ... N-R5; 11. B-R3 gives White a powerful game; or if 10; ... NxN; 11. QxN (Q4), N-Q4; 12. BxN, PxB 13. QxNP, R-B1; 14. R-K1ch is sheer murder.
4 If 14. ... KxN 15. Q-N3ch, K-B3 (15. .... K-B1; 16. B-R6 mate) 16. Q-N5 is mate.
5 If 15. ... NxQ; 16. B-R6ch, K-N1; 17. R-K8ch! QxR; 18. N-B6 mates black.
6. Or 18. ... B-Q2; 19. N-N7 mate.

I emailed Sam Sloane, because he wrote the introduction, and his email is in the front of the book, and it says he has the copyright of the book.
So I suppose he published this edition, and therefore it is his baby.


Sloan doesn't have the copyright to the book. He may have
registered a copyright for the introduction and then made it
appear to cover the book. That's his usual deception.

You can be certain that the book is a photostatic copy of
the original and that Sloan hasn't even read it.

It is possible that the book is in the public domain, which
would be the case if the original copyright holder had
neglected to renew the copyright. It is also possible that
Sloan simply ignored the copyright, figuring that it
wouldn't be worthwhile for anybody to sue him. That's what
he usually does; i.e. he is a thief and you shouldn't buy
anything from him.



He said that I am right, and the trap is simply not correct.


  #5   Report Post  
Old March 31st 15, 07:55 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 14,870
Default Sam Sloan, there is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning ChessTraps" by Irving Chernev.

Eliyahu is correct and is to be commended for finding this "cook" in the book of Winning Chess Traps by Irving Chernev.

The winning line is:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Bb4 7. O-O Bxc3 8. bxc3 Nxe4 9. Bf3 Nxc3 10. Qd3 Nd5 11. Bxd5 exd5 12. Re1+ Kf8 13. Nf5 d6 14. Nxg7 Ne5 15. Nh5 Nxd3 16. Bh6+ Kg8 17. Re8+ Qxe8 18. Nf6# 1-0
with a nice and beautiful checkmate.

Another line is

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Bb4 7. O-O Bxc3 8. bxc3 Nxe4 9. Bf3 Nxc3 10. Qd3 Nd5 11. Bxd5 exd5 12. Re1+ Kf8 13. Nf5 d6 14. Nxg7 Ne5 15. Nh5 Be6 16. Rxe5 dxe5 17. Ba3+ Ke8 18. Qb5+ Qd7 19. Nf6+ 1-0

However, the flaw is Black can play 18. .... Bd7 and there is no mate. Black seems to escape.

What I find amazing is that Eliyahu must have gone through almost the entire book to find this mistake.

What is annoying is that for at the last 12 years Jurgen R had been attacking me on this group. Why he does this I have no idea. As Eliyahu has one of my books he can see that it is not true that the book I published is a mere photostatic copy of another book. Obviously Jurgen R has never even seen one of my books or he would not make this statement.

This subject of Jurgen R constantly attacking me on the public newsgroups was even a topic of discussion at the 2010 FIDE Congress in Khanty Mansisyk Russia where one of the German delegates who happens to be a member of the same chess club with Jurgen R brought it up and said that he found these constant attacks by a member of his own chess club to be disturbing especially with regard to German Law.

Sam Sloan

Sam Sloan


  #6   Report Post  
Old March 31st 15, 06:40 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,170
Default Sam Sloan, there is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning ChessTraps" by Irving Chernev.

On Tuesday, 31 March 2015 07:55:39 UTC+1, samsloan wrote:
Eliyahu is correct and is to be commended for finding this "cook" in the book of Winning Chess Traps by Irving Chernev.

The winning line is:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Bb4 7. O-O Bxc3 8. bxc3 Nxe4 9. Bf3 Nxc3 10. Qd3 Nd5 11. Bxd5 exd5 12. Re1+ Kf8 13. Nf5 d6 14. Nxg7 Ne5 15. Nh5 Nxd3 16. Bh6+ Kg8 17. Re8+ Qxe8 18. Nf6# 1-0
with a nice and beautiful checkmate.

Another line is

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Bb4 7. O-O Bxc3 8. bxc3 Nxe4 9. Bf3 Nxc3 10. Qd3 Nd5 11. Bxd5 exd5 12. Re1+ Kf8 13. Nf5 d6 14. Nxg7 Ne5 15. Nh5 Be6 16. Rxe5 dxe5 17. Ba3+ Ke8 18. Qb5+ Qd7 19. Nf6+ 1-0

However, the flaw is Black can play 18. .... Bd7 and there is no mate. Black seems to escape.

What I find amazing is that Eliyahu must have gone through almost the entire book to find this mistake.

What is annoying is that for at the last 12 years Jurgen R had been attacking me on this group. Why he does this I have no idea. As Eliyahu has one of my books he can see that it is not true that the book I published is a mere photostatic copy of another book. Obviously Jurgen R has never even seen one of my books or he would not make this statement.

This subject of Jurgen R constantly attacking me on the public newsgroups was even a topic of discussion at the 2010 FIDE Congress in Khanty Mansisyk Russia where one of the German delegates who happens to be a member of the same chess club with Jurgen R brought it up and said that he found these constant attacks by a member of his own chess club to be disturbing especially with regard to German Law.

Sam Sloan

Sam Sloan


Yeah, but... who were the players?
  #7   Report Post  
Old April 1st 15, 08:14 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,170
Default Sam Sloan, there is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning ChessTraps" by Irving Chernev.

On Sunday, 29 March 2015 11:09:44 UTC+1, Eliyahu wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 11:12:09 AM UTC+3, Offramp wrote:
On Sunday, 22 March 2015 20:26:18 UTC, Eliyahu wrote:
Bs'd

There is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning Chess Traps" by Irving Chernev.

It ends with "Or 18....B-Q2 19 N-N7 mate" but there is no mate after the knight goes to N7. Please explain.


Eliyahu,
Could you please post the rest of the game, or a link to the score of the game. Or the game players.



Bs'd

Here it is:

Sicilian Defense

1. P-K4 P-QB4
2. N-KB3 N-QB3
3. P-Q4 PxP
4. NxP N-B3
5. N-QB3 P-K3
6. B-K2 B-N5
7. O-O (1) BxN
8. PxB NxP
9. B-B3 NxQBP? (2)
10. Q-Q3 N-Q4 (3)
11. BxN PxB
12. R-K1ch K-B1
13. N-B5! P-Q3
14. NxNP! N-K4 (4)
15. N-R5!! B-K3 (5)
16. RxN! PxR
17. B-R3ch K-K1
18. Q-N5ch! Q-Q2
19. N-B6ch

White wins the Queen

1 7. B-B3 is the safer course
2 But this is too much of a good thing. 9 ... P-Q4 is better
3 If 10 ... N-R5; 11. B-R3 gives White a powerful game; or if 10; ... NxN; 11. QxN (Q4), N-Q4; 12. BxN, PxB 13. QxNP, R-B1; 14. R-K1ch is sheer murder.
4 If 14. ... KxN 15. Q-N3ch, K-B3 (15. .... K-B1; 16. B-R6 mate) 16. Q-N5 is mate.
5 If 15. ... NxQ; 16. B-R6ch, K-N1; 17. R-K8ch! QxR; 18. N-B6 mates black.
6. Or 18. ... B-Q2; 19. N-N7 mate.

I emailed Sam Sloane, because he wrote the introduction, and his email is in the front of the book, and it says he has the copyright of the book.
So I suppose he published this edition, and therefore it is his baby.

He said that I am right, and the trap is simply not correct.


By the Way, thanks for taking the trouble to write out the entire line!
  #8   Report Post  
Old April 1st 15, 10:39 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,170
Default Sam Sloan, there is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning ChessTraps" by Irving Chernev.

On Sunday, 22 March 2015 20:26:18 UTC, Eliyahu wrote:
Bs'd

There is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning Chess Traps" by Irving Chernev.

It ends with "Or 18....B-Q2 19 N-N7 mate" but there is no mate after the knight goes to N7. Please explain.


But there IS a mate in 1 after 18...B to Q2. I put the game in Fritz.
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Enter New Game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "37"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Bb4 7. O-O Bxc3 8.bxc3 Nxe4 9. Bf3 Nxc3 10. Qd3 Nd5 11. Bxd5 exd5 12. Re1+ Kf8 13. Nf5 d6 14.Nxg7 Ne5 15. Nh5 Be6 16. Rxe5 dxe5 17. Ba3+ Ke8 18. Qb5+ Qd7 (18... Bd7 19.Ng7#) 19. Nf6+ 1-0

It is mate by 19.N-N7 if black plays 18...B-Q2.

  #9   Report Post  
Old April 1st 15, 10:42 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,170
Default Sam Sloan, there is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning ChessTraps" by Irving Chernev.

On Tuesday, 31 March 2015 07:55:39 UTC+1, samsloan wrote:
Eliyahu is correct and is to be commended for finding this "cook" in the book of Winning Chess Traps by Irving Chernev.

The winning line is:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Bb4 7. O-O Bxc3 8. bxc3 Nxe4 9. Bf3 Nxc3 10. Qd3 Nd5 11. Bxd5 exd5 12. Re1+ Kf8 13. Nf5 d6 14. Nxg7 Ne5 15. Nh5 Nxd3 16. Bh6+ Kg8 17. Re8+ Qxe8 18. Nf6# 1-0
with a nice and beautiful checkmate.

Another line is

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Bb4 7. O-O Bxc3 8. bxc3 Nxe4 9. Bf3 Nxc3 10. Qd3 Nd5 11. Bxd5 exd5 12. Re1+ Kf8 13. Nf5 d6 14. Nxg7 Ne5 15. Nh5 Be6 16. Rxe5 dxe5 17. Ba3+ Ke8 18. Qb5+ Qd7 19. Nf6+ 1-0

However, the flaw is Black can play 18. .... Bd7 and there is no mate. Black seems to escape.


What are you talking about?
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Enter New Game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "37"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Bb4 7. O-O Bxc3 8.
bxc3 Nxe4 9. Bf3 Nxc3 10. Qd3 Nd5 11. Bxd5 exd5 12. Re1+ Kf8 13. Nf5 d6 14.
Nxg7 Ne5 15. Nh5 Be6 16. Rxe5 dxe5 17. Ba3+ Ke8 18. Qb5+ Qd7 (18... Bd7 19.
Ng7#) 19. Nf6+ 1-0
  #10   Report Post  
Old April 1st 15, 10:50 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,170
Default Sam Sloan, there is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning ChessTraps" by Irving Chernev.

On Sunday, 29 March 2015 11:09:44 UTC+1, Eliyahu wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 11:12:09 AM UTC+3, Offramp wrote:
On Sunday, 22 March 2015 20:26:18 UTC, Eliyahu wrote:
Bs'd

There is a hole in trap 192 of the book "Winning Chess Traps" by Irving Chernev.

It ends with "Or 18....B-Q2 19 N-N7 mate" but there is no mate after the knight goes to N7. Please explain.


Eliyahu,
Could you please post the rest of the game, or a link to the score of the game. Or the game players.



Bs'd

Here it is:

Sicilian Defense

1. P-K4 P-QB4
2. N-KB3 N-QB3
3. P-Q4 PxP
4. NxP N-B3
5. N-QB3 P-K3
6. B-K2 B-N5
7. O-O (1) BxN
8. PxB NxP
9. B-B3 NxQBP? (2)
10. Q-Q3 N-Q4 (3)
11. BxN PxB
12. R-K1ch K-B1
13. N-B5! P-Q3
14. NxNP! N-K4 (4)
15. N-R5!! B-K3 (5)
16. RxN! PxR
17. B-R3ch K-K1
18. Q-N5ch! Q-Q2
19. N-B6ch

White wins the Queen

1 7. B-B3 is the safer course
2 But this is too much of a good thing. 9 ... P-Q4 is better
3 If 10 ... N-R5; 11. B-R3 gives White a powerful game; or if 10; ... NxN; 11. QxN (Q4), N-Q4; 12. BxN, PxB 13. QxNP, R-B1; 14. R-K1ch is sheer murder.
4 If 14. ... KxN 15. Q-N3ch, K-B3 (15. .... K-B1; 16. B-R6 mate) 16. Q-N5 is mate.
5 If 15. ... NxQ; 16. B-R6ch, K-N1; 17. R-K8ch! QxR; 18. N-B6 mates black.
6. Or 18. ... B-Q2; 19. N-N7 mate.

I emailed Sam Sloane, because he wrote the introduction, and his email is in the front of the book, and it says he has the copyright of the book.
So I suppose he published this edition, and therefore it is his baby.

He said that I am right, and the trap is simply not correct.


I think you've mistaken 17.B-R3ch for 17.B-R6ch.
Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Strange Death of President Harding by Gaston B. Means foreword bySam Sloan samsloan rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 7 September 30th 08 08:04 PM
Paul Truong is the Fake Sam Sloan BarbaraVilliers rec.games.chess.politics (Chess Politics) 0 August 1st 06 12:33 PM
Chess Book Artificer rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 6 March 13th 06 12:46 AM
Computer Chess; Chess Books Sanford rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 2 December 6th 05 08:34 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:32 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2019 ChessBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Chess"

 

Copyright © 2017