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Old March 24th 16, 04:51 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Opening Monographs -- The Schliemann Var of the Ruy -- Florian

Here is another one from the early days of chess publishing -- this time put out by THE CHESS PLAYER, Nottingham England -- written by Tibor Florian [trans. K. B. Richardson] and who knows how it wound up in my collection? It is undated but the latest game citation is [I think] 1970.

Interestingly 3. ... PKB4 (f5) in the Ruy is nothing I've faced in thousands of correspondence games, nor OTB neither.

Early European and Russian sources called it 'the Janisch Gambit' and it was pioneered by Dr. A. Schliemann in the 1860's and 1870's -- though the German player devoted most of his analysis to one line 3. ...B-B4 4. P-B3 P-B4..

In 1898 the var was analyses in detail by the English amateur Dr. Reeves in The British Chess Magazine. It became popular in tournaments, and even Dr.. Tarrasch took it up for a while. Then early C20th Dr. Dyckhoff investigated 4. N-B3 which was seen as a refutation, while Dr. Bernstein and Spielmann continued to play it.

It is amazing that it is not called 'the Doctor's opening'!

The introduction then speaks of a revitalization in the 1950s by Bulgarian players, then Russian and Yugoslav analysts, away from wild tactics into positional options.

Even Bronstein, Cholmov and Spassky took it up.

An awkward thing to face ion a tournament if you are not prepared -- and my question to the newsgroup is if anyone has essayed it themselves or faced it?

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 f5

is the stem -- and at move 3 I bet this constitutes a sib surprise factor for any White player.

Phil Innes
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Old March 25th 16, 12:49 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Opening Monographs -- The Schliemann Var of the Ruy -- Florian

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 9:51:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Here is another one from the early days of chess publishing -- this time put out by THE CHESS PLAYER, Nottingham England -- written by Tibor Florian [trans. K. B. Richardson] and who knows how it wound up in my collection? It is undated but the latest game citation is [I think] 1970.

Interestingly 3. ... PKB4 (f5) in the Ruy is nothing I've faced in thousands of correspondence games, nor OTB neither.

Early European and Russian sources called it 'the Janisch Gambit' and it was pioneered by Dr. A. Schliemann in the 1860's and 1870's -- though the German player devoted most of his analysis to one line 3. ...B-B4 4. P-B3 P-B4.

In 1898 the var was analyses in detail by the English amateur Dr. Reeves in The British Chess Magazine. It became popular in tournaments, and even Dr. Tarrasch took it up for a while. Then early C20th Dr. Dyckhoff investigated 4. N-B3 which was seen as a refutation, while Dr. Bernstein and Spielmann continued to play it.

It is amazing that it is not called 'the Doctor's opening'!

The introduction then speaks of a revitalization in the 1950s by Bulgarian players, then Russian and Yugoslav analysts, away from wild tactics into positional options.

Even Bronstein, Cholmov and Spassky took it up.

An awkward thing to face ion a tournament if you are not prepared -- and my question to the newsgroup is if anyone has essayed it themselves or faced it?

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 f5

is the stem -- and at move 3 I bet this constitutes a sib surprise factor for any White player.

Phil Innes


The ChessBase database has over 12,000 instances of the Schliemann Variation so it's not THAT rare a bird. Sokolov's book devoted to third move alternatives to 3 ... a6 in the Ruy considers it respectable. I used to play the delayed version of it, the Cordel Gambit (1 P-K4 P-K4, 2 N-KB3 N-QB3, 3 B-N5 B-B4, 4 P-B3 P-B4) with decent results, and my opponents (in the 2000-2200 range) seem fairly well booked.
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Old March 26th 16, 07:34 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Opening Monographs -- The Schliemann Var of the Ruy -- Florian

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 8:49:48 PM UTC-4, MikeMurray wrote:
On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 9:51:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Here is another one from the early days of chess publishing -- this time put out by THE CHESS PLAYER, Nottingham England -- written by Tibor Florian [trans. K. B. Richardson] and who knows how it wound up in my collection? It is undated but the latest game citation is [I think] 1970.

Interestingly 3. ... PKB4 (f5) in the Ruy is nothing I've faced in thousands of correspondence games, nor OTB neither.

Early European and Russian sources called it 'the Janisch Gambit' and it was pioneered by Dr. A. Schliemann in the 1860's and 1870's -- though the German player devoted most of his analysis to one line 3. ...B-B4 4. P-B3 P-B4.

In 1898 the var was analyses in detail by the English amateur Dr. Reeves in The British Chess Magazine. It became popular in tournaments, and even Dr. Tarrasch took it up for a while. Then early C20th Dr. Dyckhoff investigated 4. N-B3 which was seen as a refutation, while Dr. Bernstein and Spielmann continued to play it.

It is amazing that it is not called 'the Doctor's opening'!

The introduction then speaks of a revitalization in the 1950s by Bulgarian players, then Russian and Yugoslav analysts, away from wild tactics into positional options.

Even Bronstein, Cholmov and Spassky took it up.

An awkward thing to face ion a tournament if you are not prepared -- and my question to the newsgroup is if anyone has essayed it themselves or faced it?

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 f5

is the stem -- and at move 3 I bet this constitutes a sib surprise factor for any White player.

Phil Innes


The ChessBase database has over 12,000 instances of the Schliemann Variation so it's not THAT rare a bird. Sokolov's book devoted to third move alternatives to 3 ... a6 in the Ruy considers it respectable. I used to play the delayed version of it, the Cordel Gambit (1 P-K4 P-K4, 2 N-KB3 N-QB3, 3 B-N5 B-B4, 4 P-B3 P-B4) with decent results, and my opponents (in the 2000-2200 range) seem fairly well booked.


Understood Mike, it is not rare in conception as in practice in my experience. But that is only my experience. Certainly Spassky would not have sniffed at your Cordell.

The thing of it all is this, and I discussed this with Danny Heismann, how many players know 10 moves of anything? He thought very few, and no-one much under expert A. Adorjan agrees even at the GM level -- this becomes Black's opening, and black already knows it all while White has to know another 10 variations of the Ruy to not be figuring it all out OTB.

My ex county player in England, Mickey Adams, [albeit he was 2 feet tall at the time] told me he doesn't use computers primarily in the openings, since he is still finding innovations before move 12.

Thing of it is -- nevermind 'Fritz' will give you 0.3 for your position, does the other bloke have a clue?

Cordially, Phil

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Old April 2nd 16, 02:32 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Opening Monographs -- The Schliemann Var of the Ruy -- Florian

On Friday, March 25, 2016 at 12:51:28 AM UTC+8, wrote:

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 f5

is the stem -- and at move 3 I bet this

Phil Innes


Big Database in Fritz has 220 high quality ( 2300 Elo) games in this line, so what you sayin?

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 fxe4 5. Nxe4 *

RL
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Old April 12th 16, 09:23 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Opening Monographs -- The Schliemann Var of the Ruy -- Florian

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 9:32:40 PM UTC-4, raylopez99 wrote:
On Friday, March 25, 2016 at 12:51:28 AM UTC+8, wrote:

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 f5

is the stem -- and at move 3 I bet this

Phil Innes


Big Database in Fritz has 220 high quality ( 2300 Elo) games in this line, so what you saying?



OTB and a hairy opponent opposite, you will lose, grasshopper. You will lose because you don't understand the position or can't understand it fast enough. This is your route to 2200.

Whether chess databases help any more than books is uncertain when it comes down to playing the game. Very uncertain. In fact, not certain at all. What you have to do is test yourself both sides of the opening in real time -- this resolves if you understand anything, rather than clinging to Mommy's database in theoretical time -- which is cheating yourself, and a threshold if you can go further.



Phil


1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 fxe4 5. Nxe4 *

RL

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