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Old May 31st 16, 02:50 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Recent Jeopardy! chess clue

Hi, guys. I'm wondering if you can offer some input on a chess clue from the Jeopardy! game show this past Thursday. (If you're not familiar with the game show, this might get a little murky; but I think it's possible to get the gist.) The clue went like this.

Category: WHAT IS IT?
Clue: THE ALEKHINE DEFENSE

The contestant who rang in responded "What is a chess strategy?" Alex ruled the contestant correct.

It all seemed fine to us regular watchers over at our online Jeopardy! discussion group, JBoard.tv. But we have one member who says the response was flat out wrong. He says that "chess strategy" has a technical definition that does not include the Alekhine Defense. The contestant could have correctly responded "What is a chess opening," "What is a chess defense," or even "What is something to do with chess?" But Alex should have ruled "What is a chess strategy" to be incorrect.

So, two questions if you care to weigh in.

1) Is it technically incorrect to call The Alekhine Defense a "chess strategy"?

2) If you're familiar with Jeopardy!, do you feel the contestant should have been ruled incorrect?

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Opus the Penguin
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Old May 31st 16, 06:01 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Recent Jeopardy! chess clue

On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 02:50:21 UTC+1, wrote:
Hi, guys. I'm wondering if you can offer some input on a chess clue from the Jeopardy! game show this past Thursday. (If you're not familiar with the game show, this might get a little murky; but I think it's possible to get the gist.) The clue went like this.

Category: WHAT IS IT?
Clue: THE ALEKHINE DEFENSE

The contestant who rang in responded "What is a chess strategy?" Alex ruled the contestant correct.

It all seemed fine to us regular watchers over at our online Jeopardy! discussion group, JBoard.tv. But we have one member who says the response was flat out wrong. He says that "chess strategy" has a technical definition that does not include the Alekhine Defense. The contestant could have correctly responded "What is a chess opening," "What is a chess defense," or even "What is something to do with chess?" But Alex should have ruled "What is a chess strategy" to be incorrect.

So, two questions if you care to weigh in.

1) Is it technically incorrect to call The Alekhine Defense a "chess strategy"?

2) If you're familiar with Jeopardy!, do you feel the contestant should have been ruled incorrect?

--
Opus the Penguin


If the contestants had been chess players then the correct answer would be
What are the moves 1 e4 Nf6 defined as?
More vaguely the answer could be
What is a chess opening?
The response given, What is a chess strategy? would leave chess players puzzled and be ruled WRONG among chess players, but as regards your point 2.
No - he should not have been ruled incorrect.
In a fast-moving game such as Jeopardy I think it is reasonable to allow "ballpark" answers, and the response was a good one. The respondent has shown that he knows the answer in general - give him the points and move on.
There is also the perennial problem with Jeopardy; does the question/response make sense?

What is a chess opening?
THE ALEKHINE DEFENCE.
That would be an awkward dialogue with anyone except Lev Alburt or Alekhine..

So in the end I would say that the answer was definitely not correct from the viewpoint of a normal chess player, but Trebeck was correct to allow the answer within the limitations of a standard gameshow.

The word jeopardy comes from chess: from the French jeu parti, an even game..
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Old May 31st 16, 06:29 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Recent Jeopardy! chess clue

On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 4:50:21 AM UTC+3, wrote:
Hi, guys. I'm wondering if you can offer some input on a chess clue from the Jeopardy! game show this past Thursday. (If you're not familiar with the game show, this might get a little murky; but I think it's possible to get the gist.) The clue went like this.

Category: WHAT IS IT?
Clue: THE ALEKHINE DEFENSE

The contestant who rang in responded "What is a chess strategy?" Alex ruled the contestant correct.

It all seemed fine to us regular watchers over at our online Jeopardy! discussion group, JBoard.tv. But we have one member who says the response was flat out wrong. He says that "chess strategy" has a technical definition that does not include the Alekhine Defense. The contestant could have correctly responded "What is a chess opening," "What is a chess defense," or even "What is something to do with chess?" But Alex should have ruled "What is a chess strategy" to be incorrect.

So, two questions if you care to weigh in.

1) Is it technically incorrect to call The Alekhine Defense a "chess strategy"?

2) If you're familiar with Jeopardy!, do you feel the contestant should have been ruled incorrect?

--
Opus the Penguin


It's in Alex's discretion to award points. He's the umpire. Technically a chess opening is a chess strategy. You are following a plan, to allow (as Black) for White to overextend their center with the pawn advance 2. e5.

So Alex is right, but in any event he's always right.

RL
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Old June 1st 16, 06:21 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Recent Jeopardy! chess clue

Interesting! Thank you very much for your replies. It sounds as though there may be a range of opinions on this. If I'm understanding, I have two votes saying that in the chess world, it would be incorrect to call the Alekhine Defense a "chess strategy." And I have one vote from raylopez99 saying, yes, it is a chess strategy.

Then I have two votes saying Alex should have accepted the response, with Offramp clarifying that it's definitely wrong in the chess world but should be considered close enough for Jeopardy. The third vote, from Eugene Delmar's Ghost, says that even in the Jeopardy world, the response OUGHT to be counted as wrong (though, of course, he concedes, the Jeopardy powers that be are free to make whatever decision they choose).

Fair enough?

Ok, followup questions if I haven't worn out my welcome.


1) Would the contestant have been right if he had said, "What is a strategy used in chess" or would that be just as wrong?

2) What if the contestant had said, "What is a plan of action intended to accomplish a specific goal in chess?" (A mouthful, I know. I'm subbing in a dictionary definition of "strategy" as the term is used in non-chess situations.)

3) What if the contestant had said, "What is a chess tactic?"

4) What if the contestant had said, "What is a chess gambit?"


Thanks again, even if you don't feel like responding further. I really appreciate the time you've already taken.

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Opus the Penguin
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Old June 2nd 16, 01:39 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Recent Jeopardy! chess clue

On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 8:21:55 PM UTC+3, wrote:
Interesting! Thank you very much for your replies. It sounds as though there may be a range of opinions on this. If I'm understanding, I have two votes saying that in the chess world, it would be incorrect to call the Alekhine Defense a "chess strategy." And I have one vote from raylopez99 saying, yes, it is a chess strategy.

Then I have two votes saying Alex should have accepted the response, with Offramp clarifying that it's definitely wrong in the chess world but should be considered close enough for Jeopardy. The third vote, from Eugene Delmar's Ghost, says that even in the Jeopardy world, the response OUGHT to be counted as wrong (though, of course, he concedes, the Jeopardy powers that be are free to make whatever decision they choose).

Fair enough?

Ok, followup questions if I haven't worn out my welcome.


1) Would the contestant have been right if he had said, "What is a strategy used in chess" or would that be just as wrong?

2) What if the contestant had said, "What is a plan of action intended to accomplish a specific goal in chess?" (A mouthful, I know. I'm subbing in a dictionary definition of "strategy" as the term is used in non-chess situations.)

3) What if the contestant had said, "What is a chess tactic?"

4) What if the contestant had said, "What is a chess gambit?"


Thanks again, even if you don't feel like responding further. I really appreciate the time you've already taken.


Shut up you stupid penguin. The welcome wagon as been worn out long ago.

All answers are correct except #3, as the Alekhine opening is not a 'tactic'. It is however a "fingerslip variation" since supposedly it was created when A. ALekhine touched the Knight and had to move it.

RL


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Old June 2nd 16, 08:32 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Recent Jeopardy! chess clue

On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 18:21:55 UTC+1, wrote:
Interesting! Thank you very much for your replies. It sounds as though there may be a range of opinions on this. If I'm understanding, I have two votes saying that in the chess world, it would be incorrect to call the Alekhine Defense a "chess strategy." And I have one vote from raylopez99 saying, yes, it is a chess strategy.


You may soon receive a clarification as to RayLopez's Weltanschauung.

Then I have two votes saying Alex should have accepted the response, with Offramp clarifying that it's definitely wrong in the chess world but should be considered close enough for Jeopardy. The third vote, from Eugene Delmar's Ghost, says that even in the Jeopardy world, the response OUGHT to be counted as wrong (though, of course, he concedes, the Jeopardy powers that be are free to make whatever decision they choose).

Fair enough?


Yes; of course I think I am right.

1) Would the contestant have been right if he had said, "What is a strategy used in chess" or would that be just as wrong?


That is wrong. The Alekhine Defence is really quite specific. It is the chess opening with the following moves 1. pawn on e2 to e4, Knight on g8 to f6.. Now in order to make a genuine Alekhine Defence White would advance his pawn one more square, e4 to e5. If he played, say, Knight b1 to c3 instead then the game would not be an Alekhine's Defense.

2) What if the contestant had said, "What is a plan of action intended to accomplish a specific goal in chess?" (A mouthful, I know. I'm subbing in a dictionary definition of "strategy" as the term is used in non-chess situations.)


If a chess player heard that from another chess player he would diagnose some sort of autism or psycopathy in the respondent. Not valid as an answer here.

3) What if the contestant had said, "What is a chess tactic?"


Possible allowable. Trebeck would look to the judges and it would be given correct. A tactic in chess is usually one or two moves that help accomplish a strategic goal.

4) What if the contestant had said, "What is a chess gambit?"


An opening gambit is when one player offers a pawn, or sometimes a piece in the opening, normally so as to gain time to rapidly get his pieces out. The Alekhine's is not a gambit as neither side offers any material. A chess player would certainly say no but Trebeck might have accepted it.

Thanks again.


I hope I have not muddied my response.
The Answer was "The Alekhine's Defense." The correct answer would be "What is a chess opening?" or "What is the name of the moves 1.e4 Nf6".
A "Defense" is a strategy, isn't it? At the most basic level? That's why I think the contestant was, within the rules of daytime panel games, correct.

It is a shame that we no longer get Jeopardy in Britain as I used to really like it when it was shown on Sky about 15 years ago. I was amazed at how much money people won.

Alan
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Old June 6th 16, 12:51 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Recent Jeopardy! chess clue

On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 7:50:21 PM UTC-6, wrote:

1) Is it technically incorrect to call The Alekhine Defense a "chess strategy"?


I would say yes; an opening is not a strategy. However, chess _tactics_ are
things like pins and forks; a chess opening usually does reflect one's choice
of strategy (play a tactical game, play a defensive game).

I would say that it is incorrect - so if a book about Chess called the Alekhine
Defense a chess strategy, I'd complain. But it's close enough for a game show;
hey, he knew it had something to do with Chess!

John Savard
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Old June 11th 16, 07:08 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Recent Jeopardy! chess clue

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 7:51:35 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 7:50:21 PM UTC-6, wrote:

1) Is it technically incorrect to call The Alekhine Defense a "chess strategy"?


It is not a strategy, it is a defense [or opening] but the INTENT of the opening is a strategic one, to draw white's King pawn forward where it may become unstable.

All openings can be called strategic, so that would be a generic answer — and since the question contains a specific 'Alekhine's Defense', to say it is 'a strategy' instead of a particular formation seems indicated, unless of course, generic answers will do.

How would you reply to this:

Beethoven's ninth.

a) his last symphony, or
b) music

and to answer it would depend on how generic acceptable answers on the show are, right?

Phil Innes


I would say yes; an opening is not a strategy. However, chess _tactics_ are
things like pins and forks; a chess opening usually does reflect one's choice
of strategy (play a tactical game, play a defensive game).

I would say that it is incorrect - so if a book about Chess called the Alekhine
Defense a chess strategy, I'd complain. But it's close enough for a game show;
hey, he knew it had something to do with Chess!

John Savard

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Old June 11th 16, 07:49 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Recent Jeopardy! chess clue

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 2:08:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 7:51:35 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 7:50:21 PM UTC-6, wrote:

1) Is it technically incorrect to call The Alekhine Defense a "chess strategy"?


It is not a strategy, it is a defense [or opening] but the INTENT of the opening is a strategic one, to draw white's King pawn forward where it may become unstable.

All openings can be called strategic, so that would be a generic answer — and since the question contains a specific 'Alekhine's Defense', to say it is 'a strategy' instead of a particular formation seems indicated, unless of course, generic answers will do.

How would you reply to this:

Beethoven's ninth.

a) his last symphony, or
b) music

and to answer it would depend on how generic acceptable answers on the show are, right?

Phil Innes


I would say yes; an opening is not a strategy. However, chess _tactics_ are
things like pins and forks; a chess opening usually does reflect one's choice
of strategy (play a tactical game, play a defensive game).

I would say that it is incorrect - so if a book about Chess called the Alekhine
Defense a chess strategy, I'd complain. But it's close enough for a game show;
hey, he knew it had something to do with Chess!

John Savard


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Old June 24th 16, 05:02 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Recent Jeopardy! chess clue

On Mon, 30 May 2016 22:29:27 -0700 (PDT), raylopez99
wrote:

It's in Alex's discretion to award points. He's the umpire. Technically a =
chess opening is a chess strategy. You are following a plan, to allow (as =
Black) for White to overextend their center with the pawn advance 2. e5. =
=20

So Alex is right, but in any event he's always right


Jeopardy used to say a particular encyclopedia (can't recall which)
was their final authority - not sure whether that's still true or
which one it would be.
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