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Old September 26th 16, 10:35 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Announcing future mates

Is it legal to announce mate in n? For example, is it legal to make a move that will force checkmate in three moves or less and say "mate in three"?

Some might ask "But why on earth would anyone want to do that?"
There is actually a good competitive reason to do this in my opinion.
If you think you've got a definite checkmate, correct technique is to
go through the lines again and again and again until you're completely
certain that the checkmate exists. If you resolve to always announce mates,
you may be more thorough in your verification since, besides not understanding the position, you give yourself an extra penalty of severe embarrassment if you make a false announcement.

An example of this technique working might be a player thinking "Hmmm. Can't I mate in three? Yes, I can. Let me check it. Yes I can. I'm announcing mates now. So I'm about to make an announcement. Hmmm. The announcement would be really embarrassing if I've missed something and there's a defence I didn't notice.
Let me check once more. Oh, it's not a mate in three. Back to the drawing board."

Paul
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Old September 26th 16, 11:02 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Announcing future mates

On 26/09/2016 11:35, Paul wrote:
Is it legal to announce mate in n? For example, is it legal to make
a move that will force checkmate in three moves or less and say "mate
in three"?
[...]


FIDE Laws Of Chess, 11.5:
"It is forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent in any manner
whatsoever. This includes unreasonable claims, unreasonable offers of a
draw or the introduction of a source of noise into the playing area."

So no, mate announcements are illegal.

Cheers,
Rainer
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Old September 26th 16, 11:27 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Announcing future mates

On 26/09/16 10:35, Paul wrote:
[...] If you resolve to always announce mates,
you may be more thorough in your verification since, besides not
understanding the position, you give yourself an extra penalty of
severe embarrassment if you make a false announcement.


As Rainer says, this is illegal [though if it's a confirmed
claim then any penalty would be rather harsh!] by FIDE rules. From
the more relaxed days before FIDE, you may remember the story of the
player who announced mate in 3. His opponent just sat there. So he
looked again, and spotted the problem. "No, sorry, mate in 4!" His
opponent was still stony-faced. "Ah, no, mate in 5!" Still no
reaction. Further checking, and realisation dawned: "I resign!"
[I think that was in one of Chernev's books; I don't recall which,
nor do I recall whether Chernev said who the players were.]

--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.
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Old September 26th 16, 04:59 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Announcing future mates

On Monday, 26 September 2016 10:35:06 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
Is it legal to announce mate in n? For example, is it legal to make a move that will force checkmate in three moves or less and say "mate in three"?

Some might ask "But why on earth would anyone want to do that?"
There is actually a good competitive reason to do this in my opinion.
If you think you've got a definite checkmate, correct technique is to
go through the lines again and again and again until you're completely
certain that the checkmate exists. If you resolve to always announce mates,
you may be more thorough in your verification since, besides not understanding the position, you give yourself an extra penalty of severe embarrassment if you make a false announcement.

An example of this technique working might be a player thinking "Hmmm. Can't I mate in three? Yes, I can. Let me check it. Yes I can. I'm announcing mates now. So I'm about to make an announcement. Hmmm. The announcement would be really embarrassing if I've missed something and there's a defence I didn't notice.
Let me check once more. Oh, it's not a mate in three. Back to the drawing board."


In the days before increments announced mates might have been very useful. Suppose you had a definite mate in 4. You play the first move and say, "Mate in 4!" and then your flag drops. Who wins?
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Old September 26th 16, 05:17 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Announcing future mates

On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 4:59:20 PM UTC+1, Offramp wrote:
On Monday, 26 September 2016 10:35:06 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
Is it legal to announce mate in n? For example, is it legal to make a move that will force checkmate in three moves or less and say "mate in three"?

Some might ask "But why on earth would anyone want to do that?"
There is actually a good competitive reason to do this in my opinion.
If you think you've got a definite checkmate, correct technique is to
go through the lines again and again and again until you're completely
certain that the checkmate exists. If you resolve to always announce mates,
you may be more thorough in your verification since, besides not understanding the position, you give yourself an extra penalty of severe embarrassment if you make a false announcement.

An example of this technique working might be a player thinking "Hmmm. Can't I mate in three? Yes, I can. Let me check it. Yes I can. I'm announcing mates now. So I'm about to make an announcement. Hmmm. The announcement would be really embarrassing if I've missed something and there's a defence I didn't notice.
Let me check once more. Oh, it's not a mate in three. Back to the drawing board."


In the days before increments announced mates might have been very useful.. Suppose you had a definite mate in 4. You play the first move and say, "Mate in 4!" and then your flag drops. Who wins?


Obviously, your opponent wins. Otherwise, if my flag was falling, I could announce mate in 20 and work out the mate (if any) at my leisure.

Suppose the clothes of my opponent clash. For example, he or she is wearing
yellow trousers and a dark sweater. After my flag falls, I explain to the arbiter that I was distracted by my opponent's lack of fashion knowledge. Who wins?

Paul



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Old September 29th 16, 08:33 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Announcing future mates



In the days before increments announced mates might have been very useful.. Suppose you had a definite mate in 4. You play the first move and say, "Mate in 4!" and then your flag drops. Who wins?


Your opponent always wins if your flag drops and there is no mate on the board, therefore, no matter what time control exists, announcing mate is not achieving mate, therefore you lose on time — and it doesn't matter if you have less material that can win the game.

When playing without a clock and announcing mate in 4, if your opponent plays on, he should be impaled in the public square, and if you made a false claim, you should

phil innes
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Old October 9th 16, 01:31 AM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer[_2_] View Post
On 26/09/2016 11:35, Paul wrote:
Is it legal to announce mate in n? For example, is it legal to make
a move that will force checkmate in three moves or less and say "mate
in three"?
[...]


FIDE Laws Of Chess, 11.5:
"It is forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent in any manner
whatsoever. This includes unreasonable claims, unreasonable offers of a
draw or the introduction of a source of noise into the playing area."

So no, mate announcements are illegal.

Cheers,
Rainer

There is a lot of bantering back and forth among some player in chess club play so it's good to here that it is indeed considered illegal to distract. In fact, that kind of attempted distraction can wind up distracting the distracter himself.
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Old October 9th 16, 01:46 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 4:59:20 PM UTC+1, Offramp wrote:
On Monday, 26 September 2016 10:35:06 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
Is it legal to announce mate in n? For example, is it legal to make a move that will force checkmate in three moves or less and say "mate in three"?

Some might ask "But why on earth would anyone want to do that?"
There is actually a good competitive reason to do this in my opinion.
If you think you've got a definite checkmate, correct technique is to
go through the lines again and again and again until you're completely
certain that the checkmate exists. If you resolve to always announce mates,
you may be more thorough in your verification since, besides not understanding the position, you give yourself an extra penalty of severe embarrassment if you make a false announcement.

An example of this technique working might be a player thinking "Hmmm. Can't I mate in three? Yes, I can. Let me check it. Yes I can. I'm announcing mates now. So I'm about to make an announcement. Hmmm. The announcement would be really embarrassing if I've missed something and there's a defence I didn't notice.
Let me check once more. Oh, it's not a mate in three. Back to the drawing board."


In the days before increments announced mates might have been very useful.. Suppose you had a definite mate in 4. You play the first move and say, "Mate in 4!" and then your flag drops. Who wins?


Obviously, your opponent wins. Otherwise, if my flag was falling, I could announce mate in 20 and work out the mate (if any) at my leisure.

Suppose the clothes of my opponent clash. For example, he or she is wearing
yellow trousers and a dark sweater. After my flag falls, I explain to the arbiter that I was distracted by my opponent's lack of fashion knowledge. Who wins?

Paul
That kind of distraction isn't enforceable. Are dark eyeglasses distracting? In the chess club music is played by some members. Is that illegal distracting. I mean, some music might be grating on some individuals' nerves. I personally find salsa music annoying even though I am Latino.

Other music might leave me totally unfazed or might even help my concentration. A fan fluttering above the table might be distracting or soothing depending on the person.

I once encountered a player who kept up a constant whispering kind of whistling sound all during the game.

Some club players follow the example of that guy in the film Searching for Bobby Fisher playing in Central Park who yapped continuously during a game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSV2IFNgqI4


Emmanuel Lasker used to blow clouds of acrid cigar smoke at his opponents and wasn't invited to tournaments because of it.

Is an intense, belligerent or contemptuously-smug stare illegal?

Is the way one grabs the pieces as if in a White Dragon Pai Lum Kung Fu, clawing fashion, as I do, illegal? I mean I hover over the piece menacingly for a while. Is that considered illegal?

Last edited by Radrook : October 9th 16 at 01:52 AM
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Old October 10th 16, 11:26 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Announcing future mates


I once encountered a player who kept up a constant whispering kind of
whistling sound all during the game.


In a rated game it is illegal to distract you opponent.

Some club players follow the example of that guy in the film Searching
for Bobby Fisher playing in Central Park who yapped continuously during
a game.


[laugh] Yeah, I bet he's still there! At least Maurice Ashley showed up with a film crew and someone oblivion he was playing a GM yapped through the whole game — obviously to put him off. Unfortunately Ashley was onto it and describes himself as a 'trash-talker' during [informal] games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSV2IFNgqI4


Emmanuel Lasker used to blow clouds of acrid cigar smoke at his
opponents and wasn't invited to tournaments because of it.


Someone told me he played Viktor Korchnoi once. Viktor blew smoke in his face.


Is an intense, belligerent or contemptuously-smug stare illegal?

Is the way one grabs the pieces as if in a White Dragon Pai Lum Kung Fu,
clawing fashion, as I do, illegal? I mean I hover over the piece
menacingly for a while. Is that considered illegal?


If you hover and obstruct your opponent's view of the board, yes.

Phil




--
Radrook

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Old November 11th 16, 01:01 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Announcing future mates

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 12:02:40 +0200, Rainer
wrote:

On 26/09/2016 11:35, Paul wrote:
Is it legal to announce mate in n? For example, is it legal to make
a move that will force checkmate in three moves or less and say "mate
in three"?
[...]


FIDE Laws Of Chess, 11.5:
"It is forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent in any manner
whatsoever. This includes unreasonable claims, unreasonable offers of a
draw or the introduction of a source of noise into the playing area."

So no, mate announcements are illegal.


This is a rule that is a catch-all for a lot of things including in
the modern area cellular or other mobile phones.

One doesn't need to be an international arbiter to know that without
being told.
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