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Old October 14th 16, 03:01 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 1:19:06 PM UTC+1, Radrook wrote:
Paul;377016 Wrote:
On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 1:19:07 PM UTC+1, Radrook wrote:-
Paul;377011 Wrote: -
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 4:49:58 PM UTC+1, Offramp wrote:-
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 07:19:08 UTC+1, Radrook wrote:
-
A move will be forced if it is your turn and you have only one legal
square to place a piece. For example, if the only legal move is a
pawn
advance then you MUST move a pawn.

If you are in check then the only available move to get you out of
check
is a forced move. It could be a blocking move, a capture, or an
evasion
which moves the king. But whatever move you make to get out of check
if
it is the only one available is forced.

If your piece gets taken then a recapture in order to stay even in
material might be a forced move.

Those are tactical forced moves.
Strategic forced moves can involve a move which deprives a knight of
an
outpost.

A move which places a pawn on the opposite color of the opponent's
Bishop.

Such moves are forced because not making them will ultimately
increase
the possibility of a loss.

In short some forced moves are more forced than others.-

That's all ********.-

No, not all. "If you are in check then the only available move to get
you out of check is a forced move" is absolutely correct.

Paul-

I don't understand what you are referring to with: "Not at all!""
-
Forcing Moves, Part 1

GM BryanSmith


An important principle in chess is the concept of the “forcing
move”. A forcing move is one which requires the opponent to reply
in a certain way, or which greatly limits the ways in which he can
respond. Essentially, a forcing move is either a check, a capture, or
a
threat. In the case of a check, it is the rules which force the
opponent
to respond – he must get out of check. Capturing moves and threats
are also usually forcing, because while the opponent may legally be
allowed to make any move, most of the moves will be bad.


When we calculate variations, we should always pay attention – and
calculate first – the forcing moves. This is because these are the
moves most likely to achieve something, and they are also the
quickest
to calculate, since the opponent can only make a limited number of
responses.


If you calculate all the forcing moves first (even if they seem
silly)
you will avoid a huge number of miscalculations and oversights. This
is
not merely advice for beginners – even strong players can easily
get wrapped up in one specific long variation, while missing what is
right in front of their eyes, due to not looking at every forcing
move.
This happened in the fourth round game of my most recent tournament,
the
Cleveland Open:

https://www.chess.com/article/view/f...moves-part-1--

I never said "Not at all!"

Paul


What did you mean by not all?


Someone said that what you said was "all ********". I pointed out that "not
all" of it was ********. At least some of it was (and is) true. That's
where my "not all" comes from.

For example, "If you are in check then the only available move to get you out of check is a forced move" is true and therefore your post was "not all" ********.

Paul

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Old October 14th 16, 04:31 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"


A move will be forced if it is your turn and you have only one legal
square to place a piece. For example, if the only legal move is a pawn
advance then you MUST move a pawn.


Yes, you are right. It could also be a non-check

If you are in check then the only available move to get you out of check
is a forced move. It could be a blocking move, a capture, or an evasion
which moves the king. But whatever move you make to get out of check if
it is the only one available is forced.


I suppose there could be choices there, to capture or evade. In terms of blocking, several pieces may perform the block, or maybe a Knight could block on one of two squares.

But as you say, dealing with the check is forced.

Phil


If your piece gets taken then a recapture in order to stay even in
material might be a forced move.

Those are tactical forced moves.
Strategic forced moves can involve a move which deprives a knight of an
outpost.

A move which places a pawn on the opposite color of the opponent's
Bishop.

Such moves are forced because not making them will ultimately increase
the possibility of a loss.

In short some forced moves are more forced than others.




--
Radrook


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Old October 14th 16, 06:08 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Posts: 3,170
Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On Friday, 14 October 2016 16:31:47 UTC+1, wrote:

If your piece gets taken then a recapture in order to stay even in
material might be a forced move.

Those are tactical forced moves.
Strategic forced moves can involve a move which deprives a knight of an
outpost.

A move which places a pawn on the opposite color of the opponent's
Bishop.

Such moves are forced because not making them will ultimately increase
the possibility of a loss.

In short some forced moves are more forced than others.


********.
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Old October 14th 16, 07:44 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2010
Posts: 82
Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 6:08:10 PM UTC+1, Offramp wrote:
On Friday, 14 October 2016 16:31:47 UTC+1, wrote:

If your piece gets taken then a recapture in order to stay even in
material might be a forced move.

Those are tactical forced moves.
Strategic forced moves can involve a move which deprives a knight of an
outpost.

A move which places a pawn on the opposite color of the opponent's
Bishop.

Such moves are forced because not making them will ultimately increase
the possibility of a loss.

In short some forced moves are more forced than others.


********.


Yes, I share Offramp's opinion on the chess prose above.

Paul
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Old October 17th 16, 03:45 AM
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 1:19:06 PM UTC+1, Radrook wrote:
Paul;377016 Wrote:
On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 1:19:07 PM UTC+1, Radrook wrote:-
Paul;377011 Wrote: -
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 4:49:58 PM UTC+1, Offramp wrote:-
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 07:19:08 UTC+1, Radrook wrote:
-
A move will be forced if it is your turn and you have only one legal
square to place a piece. For example, if the only legal move is a
pawn
advance then you MUST move a pawn.

If you are in check then the only available move to get you out of
check
is a forced move. It could be a blocking move, a capture, or an
evasion
which moves the king. But whatever move you make to get out of check
if
it is the only one available is forced.

If your piece gets taken then a recapture in order to stay even in
material might be a forced move.

Those are tactical forced moves.
Strategic forced moves can involve a move which deprives a knight of
an
outpost.

A move which places a pawn on the opposite color of the opponent's
Bishop.

Such moves are forced because not making them will ultimately
increase
the possibility of a loss.

In short some forced moves are more forced than others.-

That's all ********.-

No, not all. "If you are in check then the only available move to get
you out of check is a forced move" is absolutely correct.

Paul-

I don't understand what you are referring to with: "Not at all!""
-
Forcing Moves, Part 1

GM BryanSmith


An important principle in chess is the concept of the €œforcing
move€. A forcing move is one which requires the opponent to reply
in a certain way, or which greatly limits the ways in which he can
respond. Essentially, a forcing move is either a check, a capture, or
a
threat. In the case of a check, it is the rules which force the
opponent
to respond €“ he must get out of check. Capturing moves and threats
are also usually forcing, because while the opponent may legally be
allowed to make any move, most of the moves will be bad.


When we calculate variations, we should always pay attention €“ and
calculate first €“ the forcing moves. This is because these are the
moves most likely to achieve something, and they are also the
quickest
to calculate, since the opponent can only make a limited number of
responses.


If you calculate all the forcing moves first (even if they seem
silly)
you will avoid a huge number of miscalculations and oversights. This
is
not merely advice for beginners €“ even strong players can easily
get wrapped up in one specific long variation, while missing what is
right in front of their eyes, due to not looking at every forcing
move.
This happened in the fourth round game of my most recent tournament,
the
Cleveland Open:

https://www.chess.com/article/view/f...moves-part-1--

I never said "Not at all!"

Paul


What did you mean by not all?


Someone said that what you said was "all ********". I pointed out that "not
all" of it was ********. At least some of it was (and is) true. That's
where my "not all" comes from.

For example, "If you are in check then the only available move to get you out of check is a forced move" is true and therefore your post was "not all" ********.

Paul
So the rest crap? OK. Explain how having to place your pawns on the opposite color of the enemy bishop in order to avoid having them picked off isn't forced? Prove that it is crap.

Retaking to maintain even material balance in certain positions is never forced? That's ridiculous!

The circumstances of the game itself will force a person to make a move.
So it is technically forced.

The problem seems to be that you folks are using the concept of forced in a very limited elemental way while I am discussing its fine nuances.
So I guess the feeling is mutual since I consider the rest of your opinions concerning my opinion ******* as well. LOL!

Last edited by Radrook : October 17th 16 at 04:06 AM


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Old October 17th 16, 04:14 AM
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Offramp View Post
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 07:19:08 UTC+1, Radrook wrote:

A move will be forced if it is your turn and you have only one legal
square to place a piece. For example, if the only legal move is a pawn
advance then you MUST move a pawn.

If you are in check then the only available move to get you out of check
is a forced move. It could be a blocking move, a capture, or an evasion
which moves the king. But whatever move you make to get out of check if
it is the only one available is forced.

If your piece gets taken then a recapture in order to stay even in
material might be a forced move.

Those are tactical forced moves.
Strategic forced moves can involve a move which deprives a knight of an
outpost.

A move which places a pawn on the opposite color of the opponent's
Bishop.

Such moves are forced because not making them will ultimately increase
the possibility of a loss.

In short some forced moves are more forced than others.


That's all ********.
To me that only means that your sorry ass is abysmally ignorant concerning the nuances of chess.

Last edited by Radrook : October 17th 16 at 04:22 AM
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Old November 11th 16, 11:07 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 42
Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 10:08:09 -0700 (PDT), Offramp
wrote:

A move which places a pawn on the opposite color of the opponent's
Bishop.

Such moves are forced because not making them will ultimately increase
the possibility of a loss.

In short some forced moves are more forced than others.


********.


No - from a player's point of view if the alternative is a mate in 1
then effectively it's forced.

From the TD's point of view (say in response to a touch move
violation) no it isn't - if you touch a piece while you have to move
it you can move it to any legal square. If that square happens to put
you into a mate - well it sucks to be you! (Similarly if you touch a
square with your hand you have to move one of the pieces that could
move there legally and if you haven't touched any pieces you have to
move there. For instance if your two rooks are on a1 and h1 and nobody
else is on the first rank and you touch d1 then unless you've touched
a rook you move to either play Rad1 or Rhd1. You can take as long as
you want so long as your flag doesn't fall.....

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