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Old September 26th 16, 10:41 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"

I would think that a "forced move" means any move such that playing anything
different to it would be clearly wrong.
However, suppose that a player has a position which can't be lost but
could either be won or drawn. Suppose also that there is only one move
which keeps winning chances alive. I would call this unique winning
attempt "forced". But I've been told (by someone whose name I don't want to reveal) that this is wrong -- that a
move is only "forced" if any other move leads to a loss.

Who is correct?

Thanks,

Paul
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Old September 26th 16, 11:51 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On 26/09/16 10:41, Paul wrote:
However, suppose that a player has a position which can't be lost but
could either be won or drawn. Suppose also that there is only one move
which keeps winning chances alive. I would call this unique winning
attempt "forced". But I've been told (by someone whose name I don't
want to reveal) that this is wrong -- that a
move is only "forced" if any other move leads to a loss.
Who is correct?


I think this is a matter of style rather than correctness; but
my personal view would agree with that of your "someone". To me, "forced"
would imply that any other move was losing. I have no single word for the
concept you describe. "Can't be lost", other than in trivial cases such
as having only a king, is rather unusual, so you're really trying to use
the same word for "X is the only way to avoid losing" and "X is the only
way to try for a win", and those are quite different things.

BTW, "whose name I don't want to reveal" is intriguing, as no
doubt you intended. You could have said "by a friend" or "by an
acquaintance", and no-one would have queried it. But now we don't know
whether it's someone famous -- a strong GM, a film star, a politician
-- who might be embarrassed at this mention, or just someone with an
unfortunate name, like Russell Prout or Duane Pipes [both genuine!].

--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.
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Old September 26th 16, 11:57 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 11:51:14 AM UTC+1, Andy Walker wrote:
BTW, "whose name I don't want to reveal" is intriguing, as no
doubt you intended. You could have said "by a friend" or "by an
acquaintance", and no-one would have queried it. But now we don't know
whether it's someone famous -- a strong GM, a film star, a politician
-- who might be embarrassed at this mention, or just someone with an
unfortunate name, like Russell Prout or Duane Pipes [both genuine!].


But he isn't a friend or an acquaintance. He's a famous person who has been kind enough to humour me by answering my personal emails. Famous to the extent of having a spread about him in the New York Times. He's not famous as a chess player, but has a serious interest in chess and was a USCF master at his peak.

Paul
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Old September 29th 16, 08:26 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 5:41:38 AM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
I would think that a "forced move" means any move such that playing anything
different to it would be clearly wrong.
However, suppose that a player has a position which can't be lost but
could either be won or drawn. Suppose also that there is only one move
which keeps winning chances alive. I would call this unique winning
attempt "forced". But I've been told (by someone whose name I don't want to reveal) that this is wrong -- that a
move is only "forced" if any other move leads to a loss.


the simple answer is that in the nomenclature of chess a forced move is not an electional move among all moves, but one which must be played, and also because it has to do with a current check — albeit there can be several forced moves to say block a check, but blocking is forced

shifting this to a line which exhibits lost opportunities to win is not within the sense of forced move, though one might call those indolent moves

phil innes


Who is correct?

Thanks,

Paul

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Old September 30th 16, 06:22 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On Monday, 26 September 2016 11:51:14 UTC+1, Andy Walker wrote:

BTW, "whose name I don't want to reveal" is intriguing, as no
doubt you intended. You could have said "by a friend" or "by an
acquaintance", and no-one would have queried it. But now we don't know
whether it's someone famous -- a strong GM, a film star, a politician
-- who might be embarrassed at this mention, or just someone with an
unfortunate name, like Russell Prout or Duane Pipes [both genuine!].


My immediate guess was Randy Steven Kraft, but subsequent clues lead me to think of Kenneth Rogoff.


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Old September 30th 16, 08:28 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 6:22:51 AM UTC+1, Offramp wrote:
On Monday, 26 September 2016 11:51:14 UTC+1, Andy Walker wrote:

BTW, "whose name I don't want to reveal" is intriguing, as no
doubt you intended. You could have said "by a friend" or "by an
acquaintance", and no-one would have queried it. But now we don't know
whether it's someone famous -- a strong GM, a film star, a politician
-- who might be embarrassed at this mention, or just someone with an
unfortunate name, like Russell Prout or Duane Pipes [both genuine!].


My immediate guess was Randy Steven Kraft, but subsequent clues lead me to think of Kenneth Rogoff.


No, Kenneth Rogoff is eliminated because I said "He's not famous as a chess player, but has a serious interest in chess and was a USCF master at his peak."

Paul
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Old September 30th 16, 03:13 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On Friday, 30 September 2016 08:28:23 UTC+1, Paul wrote:

No, Kenneth Rogoff is eliminated because I said "He's not famous as a chess player, but has a serious interest in chess and was a USCF master at his peak."


That sounds like it make me right.
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Old September 30th 16, 03:54 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 3:13:56 PM UTC+1, Offramp wrote:
On Friday, 30 September 2016 08:28:23 UTC+1, Paul wrote:

No, Kenneth Rogoff is eliminated because I said "He's not famous as a chess player, but has a serious interest in chess and was a USCF master at his peak."


That sounds like it make me right.


No, it wasn't Ken Rogoff. I really don't want to give his name. He gets too many emails as it is. I've stopped emailing him, myself. If I say his name, it will generate spam and cause his name to come up on more google searches etc. Also, he shuns the limelight somewhat and turns down opportunities to be on primetime TV despite the New York Times article.

Paul
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Old September 30th 16, 05:27 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"

Is it Thomas Pynchon?
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Old September 30th 16, 06:58 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default The meaning of a "forced move"

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 5:27:24 PM UTC+1, Offramp wrote:
Is it Thomas Pynchon?


No, you won't guess it. He was in the New York Times years ago. He's achieved a lot but he doesn't like publicity and the Times interview was an exception. He's not so famous that everyone's heard of him.

Paul
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