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Old November 21st 04, 01:14 PM
Chess One
 
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Default AUTO DA FE

AUTO DA FE

In a very disturbing report on Fide doping, which has strong implications
for the future.

I note from the Fide text* that;-

a) although Fide admit to not quite following any coherent written or verbal
procedure, it admits no fault of itself, and does not modulate its
judgments thereby.

b) there is a presumption of guilt of the accused.

c) the accused person's testimony is termed 'a confession' rather than, eg,
'a statement.'

d) stronger measures are intended;

"...judges unanimously that in future cases the Panel will in all
probability be forced to impose two years of ineligibility, even if an
amateur is concerned." even though elsewhere, the stated intention of the
regulations is to regulate professional players.

e) the penalties imposed below are to remove points scored by the player in
a TEAM competition, and therefore any dissent will result in a TEAM penalty.

f) by refusing a test Susan Polgar would have forfeited her own points in
the recently concluded Olympiad, and her teams score would also be reduced,
hence the US team's medal would also be forfeit in this case.

g) by extending a points-penalty to a team, a player who in an act of
individual conscience declines to be tested, is now in effect penalising all
players in the team, and the values we uphold in the West of acting from
individual conscience is now eliminated from chess.

Phil Innes

* I didn't include it here, perhaps there is a URL?


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Old November 21st 04, 09:28 PM
Martin Sims
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ivanchuk also submitted to a dope test rather than jeopardise Ukraine's gold
medal.

Congratulations to Shaun Press and Bobby Miller for standing up for their
rights. And what the hell was Speelman doing on the panel? I thought he was
one of the good guys?

"Chess One" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
AUTO DA FE

In a very disturbing report on Fide doping, which has strong implications
for the future.

I note from the Fide text* that;-

a) although Fide admit to not quite following any coherent written or

verbal
procedure, it admits no fault of itself, and does not modulate its
judgments thereby.

b) there is a presumption of guilt of the accused.

c) the accused person's testimony is termed 'a confession' rather than,

eg,
'a statement.'

d) stronger measures are intended;

"...judges unanimously that in future cases the Panel will in all
probability be forced to impose two years of ineligibility, even if an
amateur is concerned." even though elsewhere, the stated intention of the
regulations is to regulate professional players.

e) the penalties imposed below are to remove points scored by the player

in
a TEAM competition, and therefore any dissent will result in a TEAM

penalty.

f) by refusing a test Susan Polgar would have forfeited her own points in
the recently concluded Olympiad, and her teams score would also be

reduced,
hence the US team's medal would also be forfeit in this case.

g) by extending a points-penalty to a team, a player who in an act of
individual conscience declines to be tested, is now in effect penalising

all
players in the team, and the values we uphold in the West of acting from
individual conscience is now eliminated from chess.

Phil Innes

* I didn't include it here, perhaps there is a URL?




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Old November 22nd 04, 01:50 AM
Chess One
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Martin Sims" wrote in message
...
Ivanchuk also submitted to a dope test rather than jeopardise Ukraine's
gold
medal.

Congratulations to Shaun Press and Bobby Miller for standing up for their
rights. And what the hell was Speelman doing on the panel? I thought he
was
one of the good guys?


If it came to a choice for match organisers between Fide and either of these
guys, then I know which way I'll decide. Pehaps it will come down to this
the world over? Phil

"Chess One" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
AUTO DA FE

In a very disturbing report on Fide doping, which has strong implications
for the future.

I note from the Fide text* that;-

a) although Fide admit to not quite following any coherent written or

verbal
procedure, it admits no fault of itself, and does not modulate its
judgments thereby.

b) there is a presumption of guilt of the accused.

c) the accused person's testimony is termed 'a confession' rather than,

eg,
'a statement.'

d) stronger measures are intended;

"...judges unanimously that in future cases the Panel will in all
probability be forced to impose two years of ineligibility, even if an
amateur is concerned." even though elsewhere, the stated intention of the
regulations is to regulate professional players.

e) the penalties imposed below are to remove points scored by the player

in
a TEAM competition, and therefore any dissent will result in a TEAM

penalty.

f) by refusing a test Susan Polgar would have forfeited her own points in
the recently concluded Olympiad, and her teams score would also be

reduced,
hence the US team's medal would also be forfeit in this case.

g) by extending a points-penalty to a team, a player who in an act of
individual conscience declines to be tested, is now in effect penalising

all
players in the team, and the values we uphold in the West of acting from
individual conscience is now eliminated from chess.

Phil Innes

* I didn't include it here, perhaps there is a URL?






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Old November 23rd 04, 12:45 AM
Parrthenon
 
Posts: n/a
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FIDE might change their minds if ALL
players refuse to be drug-tested at ALL tournaments ALL the time. -- 5et2

No one here thinks chess ever will be "in the Olympics" -- as that phrase is
commonly understood. The Olympic Committee would not accommodate major league
baseball with all of its financial, legal and social resources, and the pygmy
of FIDE never stood a chance in the first place. It was a sham from the start.

As GM Larry Evans repeatedly stated, "There is no better way than drug
testing to drive people away from chess."

Drug testing is now about building a permanent medical commission that
can control players and snuff out dissent. It is the ideal hangout for the
Azmaiparashvilis and Ilyumzhinovs and, yes, the Morten Sands and David Jarretts
of the world and their ilk.

Drug testing is about officialdom and has absolutely nothing to do
with drugs. No drug ever has been shown to affect play positively.

As for money, we went through this process ad nauseum. Less than one
million dollars worldwide comes to chess because of this testing. A pittance.
The budget for testing drugs will eventually exceed the picayune financial
intake.

Like a toll authority that exhausts the tolls raised by its existence,
drug testing is about supporting a new layer of officialdom.

It is time for American players to force the hand of the USCF
Executive Board via a petition. A new version of an earlier petition will soon
appear here, and I call for volunteers to join a committee against drug
testing.

Yours, Larry Parr

__________________________________________________ ______________
"FIDE has made its decision. Players who refuse to be drug tested will not be
able to play chess." -- Dr. Press, co-founder of the FIDE Medical Commission.


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Old December 14th 04, 01:35 AM
Shaun Press
 
Posts: n/a
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Martin Sims wrote:
Ivanchuk also submitted to a dope test rather than jeopardise Ukraine's gold
medal.

Congratulations to Shaun Press and Bobby Miller for standing up for their
rights. And what the hell was Speelman doing on the panel? I thought he was
one of the good guys?


I've only come across this thread so I apologise for the delay in posting.
Speelman was (and is) one of the good guys. He and Dolmatov tried to
minimise the punishment to a simple warning, which is pretty good
considering they weren't even allowed to discuss guilt or innocence. In
the end they held out which meant the panel could only hand down a 3-2
decision. The panel chair had hoped for a unanimous verdict, and they
spent over a hour trying to get one.
The person on the panel who clearly wasn't one of the good guys was Dr
Dewprakash Gajadin from Surinam who was there as a medical
representative. What he didn't tell the other panel members was that we
had played in the 3rd round and he had lost to me. Of course with the
punishment handed down, that game is considered to no longer exist.
  #7   Report Post  
Old December 14th 04, 01:53 AM
Sam Sloan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:35:13 +1100, Shaun Press
wrote:

Martin Sims wrote:
Ivanchuk also submitted to a dope test rather than jeopardise Ukraine's gold
medal.

Congratulations to Shaun Press and Bobby Miller for standing up for their
rights. And what the hell was Speelman doing on the panel? I thought he was
one of the good guys?


I've only come across this thread so I apologise for the delay in posting.
Speelman was (and is) one of the good guys. He and Dolmatov tried to
minimise the punishment to a simple warning, which is pretty good
considering they weren't even allowed to discuss guilt or innocence. In
the end they held out which meant the panel could only hand down a 3-2
decision. The panel chair had hoped for a unanimous verdict, and they
spent over a hour trying to get one.
The person on the panel who clearly wasn't one of the good guys was Dr
Dewprakash Gajadin from Surinam who was there as a medical
representative. What he didn't tell the other panel members was that we
had played in the 3rd round and he had lost to me. Of course with the
punishment handed down, that game is considered to no longer exist.


I just realized that this is a posting by the one and only Shaun
Press.

A round of applause, please.

Sam Sloan
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