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Old December 10th 04, 07:07 PM
Rob Mitchell
 
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Default Too much Harsh Criticism

Don,
Very well said!
Cudos.
Rob

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Old December 10th 04, 08:08 PM
irvin
 
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Default

Well said.

I believe that current board members can do great work if they just allow
themselves to think with an open mind.

I personally have nothing against them getting money for their efforts. It's
the right thing from an ethical or professional standpoint. Among other
things, because it makes them more willing to put in the time and effort
necessary to make the whole operation more profitable.

I say to Beatriz, Bill Goichberg, whomever: work for the USCF, make it a
more profitable operation and get paid in the process. It's good for
everyone.

Then, the process will be transparent.


--
Irvin
-------------------------
http://www.pixel69.com


"Chessdon" wrote in message
...
I believe the move to Crossville may be a huge mistake for two reasons -
the
cost to move, and secondly the failure to fully explore promising
alternatives.


On the other hand I also have the highest ethical regard for those fellow
Board
members of mine who made the decision to move. They are doing what they
believe
is in the best interest of the USCF.

Yet, here on rgcp and elsewhere I see personal ruthlessness bringing
irrelevant matters into play.

Case in point, Beatriz doesn't want to accept a paid job from the USCF as
she
can make considerable more money teaching chess here in Florida or in NYC.
But out of a true sense of duty , she will accept that job because she,
like
others of us on the Board, believe:
a full=time-paid-manager-of-the-process-position is necessary.

Against her own wishes. Beatriz is resigning from the Board to work full
time
on the move to Crossville. She is not a rich lady and like most of us
needs to
be paid for full time employment.

My advice to Beatriz's critics is: stick to the real issues, you have a
strong
hand. avoid the personnel stuff, it damages your case!.

Don Schultz





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Old December 11th 04, 02:44 AM
irvin
 
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I agree completely with you, Larry, that Board Members jumping from one
position to another (if and when that happens) would set a very bad
precedent. It just not right.

Now, to clarify my previous statement: I feel that every person who does
work for the USCF is entitled to financial compensation (from the
beginning). It helps in keeping all affairs clean.

Please, notice that I come here as a chess fan (I used to be a master-rated
player) without an agenda. I'm not friends (or enemies, for that matter)
with any of the sides posting to these forums. Hopefully, I'll be able to
contribute in a positive manner.

--
Irvin
-------------------------
http://www.pixel69.com


"Parrthenon" wrote in message
...
I personally have nothing against them getting money for their efforts.
It's
the right thing from an ethical or professional standpoint. Among other
things,
because it makes them more willing to put in the time and effort necessary
to
make the whole operation more profitable. -- irvin

Against her own wishes. Beatriz is resigning from the Board to work full

time on the move to Crossville. She is not a rich lady and like most of
us
needs to
be paid for full time employment. My advice to Beatriz's critics is:
stick to
the real issues, you have a strong hand. avoid the personnel stuff, it
damages your case! -- Don Schultz


The issues which the board resolutely does not discuss is why they
could
not grant a truly reputable, chess-productive businessman such as Erik
Anderson
two weeks to negotiate a deal with billionaire Gerry and why they will
not
tell us the content of the contracts with Crossville.

I don't care what or with whom Beatriz Marinello does whatever she does.
Or,
for that matter, what the rest of us most assuredly do or with whom or
whoms.

On the other hand it is an issue if Beatriz Marinello, against her trothed
word, resigns from the Board and steps straight into a paid position with
the
USCF, effectively replacing Bill Goichberg. We would have to state
truthfully
that she broke her pledged word and that word is now depreciated severely.
There will be no particular reason to believe anything else she says in
the
future, lest it be iterations of commonplace truths.

Board members must not step from volunteer service straight into
remunerated
labor in Federation headquarters.

__________________________________________________ ______________
"FIDE has made its decision. Players who refuse to be drug tested will not
be
able to play chess." -- Dr. Press, co-founder of the FIDE Medical
Commission.



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Old December 11th 04, 02:48 AM
Parrthenon
 
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I agree completely with you, Larry, that Board Members jumping from one
position to another (if and when that happens) would set a very bad precedent.
It just not right. -- irvin

I have called upon Sam Sloan to apologize to Beatriz Marinello and to those
of us who have supported many of his initiatives, though by no means all.

Where the likes of a Randy Bauer and Stan Booz are concerned -- or, for
that matter, a pack of past adversaries -- I never issued a similar call. I
never accused them of letting down our expectations.

Sam Sloan may wonder whether I am holding him to a skewed, higher
standard than I would the Messrs. Booz and Bauer.

The answer is yes. Entertaining a double standard is not altogether
fair, and Sam might at first imagine that he is getting the worst of it. But I
don't think anyone ever truly suffers when they are expected to do better.

Sam: you have taken an enormous amount of abuse on this forum. Your
person has been under scabrous attack on nearly a daily basis because the
political class wishes to make your person rather than the secrecy surrounding
the move to Crossville the issue. You have virtually never returned the
scatology and the baseness, which has been to your credit.

Sam: don't start now. Don't lower yourself to the level of the
opponents here who have employed extravagant bemerding language in posting
after posting.

Sam: accept the fact that there are several of us who expect you to
act better than a Randy Bauer or a Stan Booz.

__________________________________________________ ______________
"FIDE has made its decision. Players who refuse to be drug tested will not be
able to play chess." -- Dr. Press, co-founder of the FIDE Medical Commission.
  #5   Report Post  
Old December 11th 04, 03:27 AM
Randy Bauer
 
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Default


Larry Parr wrote in message
...

Sam: you have taken an enormous amount of abuse on this forum. Your
person has been under scabrous attack on nearly a daily basis because the
political class wishes to make your person rather than the secrecy
surrounding
the move to Crossville the issue. You have virtually never returned the
scatology and the baseness, which has been to your credit.

Sam: don't start now. Don't lower yourself to the level of the
opponents here who have employed extravagant bemerding language in posting
after posting.

Sam: accept the fact that there are several of us who expect you
to
act better than a Randy Bauer or a Stan Booz.

In a single post -- a sworn statement, no less -- Sloan:

Refers to respected former USCF President Dr. Leroy Dubeck as a "whacko"
bent on revenge who "wants [the USCF] to get into the building construction
business".

Refers to former Board member Harry Sabine as one who "cooked up this scheme
to move the USCF to Crossville." Alleges it is "widely known" that Sabine,
an attorney and county commissioner, "wants to become Executive Director of
the USCF."

Current President Beatriz Marinello is a "notorious lesbian" and she and
Vice President of Finance Tim Hanke are "unemployed with probably little
money." They have "questionable backgrounds" and we are "not sure" whether
they are "going to run off with the money." Tim and Beatriz running off
with the USCF money "could possibly happen."

Larry Parr's defense of Sloan -- and belief in him -- is bizarre. In an
earlier post, Parr took to attacking me with claims of ties to chess
political allies that he has not been able to back up with facts.

It's time for Parr to put up or shut up here as well. Parr, you've got a
whole Google archive to use as research, please find posts where I attacked
a similar number of respected chess figures to the despicable extent
exhibited here by Sam Sloan. If you cannot, I'll be waiting for a
correction. Of course, I won't hold my breath.

I realize it's too much to ask for an apology -- you've picked your bed, I
expect you to continue to lie in it.

Randy Bauer











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Old December 11th 04, 03:28 AM
Mike Nolan
 
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"irvin" writes:

I agree completely with you, Larry, that Board Members jumping from one
position to another (if and when that happens) would set a very bad
precedent. It just not right.


Actually, if you want to cite precedent there have been at least two
Board members who were hired by the office over the years, Edmundson
and Thackrey.

Several Delegates have been hired by the office, too. Frank Elley and
Glenn Petersen were both Delegates. For that matter, Bill Goichberg
has been a Delegate for many years. I think Frank Niro and Grant Perks
had both served as Delegates in the past, too.
--
Mike Nolan
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Old December 11th 04, 03:51 AM
GrantPerks
 
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Actually, if you want to cite precedent there have been at least two
Board members who were hired by the office over the years, Edmundson
and Thackrey.


Yes, but this was prior to the delegates passing the Standards of Conduct for
the USCF Executive Board.

Why don't sections (2)(a) and (2)(b) of the Standards apply in this case?
What's hard to understand about the passage "if such compensation results from
bids accepted or agreements made by the Board during his tenure"?

Grant Perks

"The USCF Board of Delegates establishes the following standards of conduct for
Executive Board members in the performance of their duties:
General Principles. Members of the USCF Executive Board have responsibilities
of the highest order for the promotion of chess and for stewardship of the
resources of the USCF.........

2)(a) Except where noted below, no Executive Board member or a member of his
immediate family may receive financial compensation from the USCF for any
reason, except for standard reimbursement of expenses, during his tenure on the
Board, or for two years after completing his tenure if such compensation
results from bids accepted or agreements made by the Board during his
tenure........
2)(b) No Executive Board member, or a member of his immediate family, may
profit financially from organizing or directing a national tournament or
activity organized or co-organized by the USCF, or from any business activity
of the USCF, if the Executive Board or the USCF business office is involved in
determining the arrangements; such restriction applies during the Board
member’s tenure and for two years thereafter, with respect to actions taken
during his or her tenure on the Board. This provision does not apply if the
bid, and all relevant financial arrangements, were finalized before the member
was elected to the Board, and are not changed to his advantage during his
tenure.


  #8   Report Post  
Old December 11th 04, 03:55 AM
Tom Klem
 
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Default


"Parrthenon" wrote in message
...




Sam: accept the fact that there are several of us who expect you

to
act better than a Randy Bauer or a Stan Booz.



So am I missing something here, or has Sam Sloan been taking medication for
Adult Attention Deficit Disorder? Or is there something else afoot here.

Seriously, you and others stood by here (mostly mute) while more than forty
masters here in Nevada were denigrated, defamed (libled), threatened with
expulsion, and the loss of titles, priviliges and other appurtances granted
hereto by the USCF (important to some who spent years gathering them),
simply for wanting the state affiliate to work according to its bylaws. Sam
Sloan led the charge in the destruction of a whole organization of happy
chess playing, dues paying, ratings garnering (and paid for), USCF members.

Now you are telling us that there is a sweet and gentle side to Sam Sloan,
chief paid provoteur of the USCF????

I've heard the argument made against some that a leopard cannot change its
spots. Are you now advocating the opposite here?


--
Tom Klem

"That'll be the day"
---John Wayne


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Old December 11th 04, 04:32 AM
Parrthenon
 
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Default

THE MYTH OF VOLUNTEERISM

Irvin's suggestion that Board members receive a stipend may have a lot of
arguments against it, but one argument in favor is that it would end the
claptrap about volunteer service. We could then hold our Board members to a
higher standard.

__________________________________________________ ______________
"FIDE has made its decision. Players who refuse to be drug tested will not be
able to play chess." -- Dr. Press, co-founder of the FIDE Medical Commission.
  #10   Report Post  
Old December 11th 04, 04:35 AM
Mike Nolan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ojunk (GrantPerks) writes:

Actually, if you want to cite precedent there have been at least two
Board members who were hired by the office over the years, Edmundson
and Thackrey.


Yes, but this was prior to the delegates passing the Standards of Conduct for
the USCF Executive Board.


Why don't sections (2)(a) and (2)(b) of the Standards apply in this case?
What's hard to understand about the passage "if such compensation results from
bids accepted or agreements made by the Board during his tenure"?


Officially, she won't be hired until after she resigns from the Board, which
could always decide not to do so after she resigns. It will take a 4-2
vote to hire her, as the President no longer has the authority to break
a tie on the Board.

As I have noted on numerous occasions, both on this forum and in
private e-mails to Grant (and others), though I have not found the motion
in my less-than-complete collection of Board Minutes, past Boards have
reportedly adopted an internal rule prohibiting Board members from
becoming USCF employees for a period of time. I think the interval
may have been one year when John Donaldson was on the board, I think there
was a two year interval adopted during either the Smith or Redman
presidencies.

However, the Delegates have never made such a rule explicit, though
they certainly have had ample opportunities to do so, such as by
rewriting the sections of the Code of Ethics Grant cites. The Board is
therefore free to change that internal rule or eliminate it, distasteful as
that may be to some. Perhaps there will be some ADMs submitted to address
this situation in August.

Whether either New York or Illinois not-for-profit law prohibits such
a hiring is a separate matter. Has anyone cited any specific statute
on this point?
--
Mike Nolan
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