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Old January 28th 05, 09:26 PM
Liam Too
 
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Default 10 reasons to punish Fischer

Kiddon wrote:
No, just one reason:

1. Fischer broke the law.

kiddon


What law? Did you mean the Treasury Dept Law?

"In 1964 GM Evans enraged the right wing by defying a State Department
ban on Cuba and competing in the Capablanca Memorial. In 1981 GM Evans
enraged the left wing by lecturing on chess in South Africa. There are
always people who would allow the government to stifle our basic right
to travel anywhere in peacetime."
--http://www.worldchessnetwork.com/English/chessNews/evans/040126.php

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Old January 28th 05, 09:46 PM
Mike Murray
 
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On 28 Jan 2005 13:26:19 -0800, "Liam Too"
wrote:

Kiddon wrote:
No, just one reason:


1. Fischer broke the law.


kiddon


What law? Did you mean the Treasury Dept Law?


Sort of. Tax evasion.
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Old January 28th 05, 09:55 PM
Kiddon
 
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Default


Liam Too wrote:
Kiddon wrote:
No, just one reason:

1. Fischer broke the law.

kiddon


What law? Did you mean the Treasury Dept Law?

"In 1964 GM Evans enraged the right wing by defying a State

Department
ban on Cuba and competing in the Capablanca Memorial. In 1981 GM

Evans
enraged the left wing by lecturing on chess in South Africa. There

are
always people who would allow the government to stifle our basic

right
to travel anywhere in peacetime."
--http://www.worldchessnetwork.com/English/chessNews/evans/040126.php

______________________________
No, I mean the applicable executive order, not a Treasury Dept
regulation. What GM Evans got away with does not matter to me in this
context. If I am pulled over for speeding, the fact that the guy next
to me that was not pulled over was also speeding, or sped 30 years
prior, is not a valid defense.

kiddon

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Old January 28th 05, 09:58 PM
Liam Too
 
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Mike Murray wrote:
On 28 Jan 2005 13:26:19 -0800, "Liam Too"
wrote:

Kiddon wrote:
No, just one reason:


1. Fischer broke the law.


kiddon


What law? Did you mean the Treasury Dept Law?


Sort of. Tax evasion.


Nope, he was never charged with tax evasion. Kiddon knows about the
Treasury Dept being in charge of Executive order 12810.

Here are the links:

http://www.chessbase.com/images2/2004/fischer11.pdf

http://www.archives.gov/federal_regi...992.html#12810

Executive Order 12810
Blocking property of and prohibiting transactions with the Federal
Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro)
Signed: June 5, 1992
Federal Register page and date: 57 FR 24347; June 9, 1992
Amended by (continued): Notice, May 25, 1993; Notice, May 25, 1994;
Notice, May 24, 1996; Notice, May 28, 1997
Revoked in part by: EO 12831, January 15, 1993
See: EO 12846, April 25, 1993; Final Rule of January 3, 1996 (61 FR
629); Presidential Determination No. 96-7 of December 27, 1995; Notice
of May 25, 2000; Notice of May 24, 2001
Revoked by: EO 13304, May 28, 2003

Executive Order 12846
Additional measures with respect to the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
(Serbia and Montenegro)
Signed: April 25, 1993
Federal Register page and date: 58 FR 25771; April 27, 1993
See: EO 12808, May 30, 1992; EO 12810, June 5, 1992; EO 12831, January
15, 1993; Notice of May 25, 1993; Notice of May 25, 1994; 58 FR 35828
(Department of the Treasury, Office of Foreign Assets Control sanctions
regulations); Presidential Determination No. 96-7 of December 27, 1995;
Notice of May 24, 1996; Notice, May 28, 1997; Notice of May 24, 2001
Revoked by: EO 13304, May 28, 2003

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Old January 28th 05, 10:04 PM
Liam Too
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kiddon wrote:
______________________________
No, I mean the applicable executive order, not a Treasury Dept
regulation. What GM Evans got away with does not matter to me in

this
context. If I am pulled over for speeding, the fact that the guy

next
to me that was not pulled over was also speeding, or sped 30 years
prior, is not a valid defense.

kiddon


I agree. However, my argument is a matter of principle. Speeding is a
victimless crime. Violating an EO is also a victimless crime. I share
the belief of GM Evans and Larry Parr that Bobby Fischer is not a
criminal in any context.



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Old January 28th 05, 10:10 PM
Mike Murray
 
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Default

On 28 Jan 2005 13:58:04 -0800, "Liam Too"
wrote:

Nope, he was never charged with tax evasion. Kiddon knows about the
Treasury Dept being in charge of Executive order 12810.


Not yet, I realize, but ten to one that's what he'll actually end up
getting convicted for, if they get him back in the States.
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Old January 28th 05, 10:18 PM
Liam Too
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Mike Murray wrote:
On 28 Jan 2005 13:58:04 -0800, "Liam Too"
wrote:

Nope, he was never charged with tax evasion. Kiddon knows about the
Treasury Dept being in charge of Executive order 12810.


Not yet, I realize, but ten to one that's what he'll actually end up
getting convicted for, if they get him back in the States.


Yep. However, his absence here in the US for more than 10 years may be
a valid reason not to pay taxes on winnings.
I'm betting that he will not be deported here in the USA.

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Old January 29th 05, 08:20 AM
Hans Jørgen Lassen
 
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Default

"Kiddon" wrote:

No, just one reason:


1. Fischer broke the law.


Actually it was an Executive Order, not a law. The one who did the
lawbreaking was father Bush by issuing this EO, contrary to American law.
Hans J


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Old January 29th 05, 12:24 PM
Chess One
 
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Default


"Hans Jørgen Lassen" wrote in message
. ..
"Chess One" wrote:

Dear Hans Christian AnderLassen,

did you forget #11? It is always traditionally necessary to kill the
discarded hero/king, if you feel...

...it is difficult to complete this sentence. I thought about it all day.

Why, from your perspective, do we do it?


Dear Phil!

I did in fact think about #11, but like you found it too difficult to
phrase, and maybe too speculative. But I agree in your point. Fischer let
the people of the great American nation down, so he must be punished. I
should have included that point. Thanks for your amendment.


Dear Hans,

Its difficult to speak about because I get stuck with my own opinions about
it. Because I do not know Fischer personally, I can only guess what all this
must seem like /to him./

I think it must be confusing!

When he played in Iceland against Spassky it was during the cold-war. Our
nations didn't drop bombs on each other, or destroy the entire planet, but
we are in no doubt that it was a 'war', no? No one says the 'cold-peace'.

Did anyone accuse Fischer of validating the political structure of the
Soviet Union by playing Boris Spassky? No! Henry Kissinger calls Fischer up
and cheers him on. Nixon spoke about American pride in its citizen-diplomat!

What can all this have been like for Fischer? Did he, at that time, see
himself as a citizen representative of his country who would break the ice
of the cold-war, by not threatening Boris Spassky with nuclear death or
actual conflict, but use chess playing as a ritual conflict instead of a
real one? Is this how it may have seemed to him?

Certainly the Russians were capable of inflicting great damage onto the USA
at the time - but Fischer received no censure for playing them in the
cold-war. In Yugoslavia the Serbs could not conceivably be a threat or hurt
USA, but Fischer was ostracized for doing - from /his/ perspective - for
doing nothing different?!

He is obviously an independent character who makes his own fortunes in life
by creating them - any top chess player must do the same, and rely on his
own actions - no government can make you a GM or give you a pension for it


Again, from Fischer's perspective, he perhaps considered that the
government's involvement in wars was itself a failure, and to respect their
status as failed-administrators who are now reduced to dropping bombs on
distant peoples, and their edicts on how he should personally behave with
other people around the world appear to him as ... daft ... as if they
should tell him how to play the King's Indian.

He is only a 'little person' compared to a government. A pawn. But I think
pawns are the soul of chess, and people are the souls in any democracy. And
I respect both government and people. But does the government in this case
understand or respect this particular soul?

I conclude to myself - this idea I have about Fischer - that nothing changed
for him on the inside, nothing changed! Nothing changed about his own
motivations between one match and the other, but outside things changed.

I could certainly understand that this could be a cause for confusion, and
anger too.

Lux! Phil Innes




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Old January 30th 05, 07:25 PM
StanB
 
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Default


"Liam Too" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yep. However, his absence here in the US for more than 10 years may be
a valid reason not to pay taxes on winnings.


There is no statute of limitations for tax fraud.


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