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Old March 24th 05, 11:46 AM
Hans Jørgen Lassen
 
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Default An eye opener

What can be learned from this Fischer-story?

1. That the American state (and a portion of the American people, though
definitely not all) is as vindictive as the God of the Old Testament.

2. That any excuse will be used, in this case a ridiculous crime such as
playing 20 games of chess with an old friend.

3. That too many people believe in their leaders and do not use their heads
for thinking. I mean, how can anyone in their right mind consider 20 games
of chess a serious crime?

4. That freedom of speech is an abstraction. You are free to say whatever
you want to - as long as you hail the sacred American state.

5. That Japan is not a free country, but an American slave.

6. That Iceland is a proud nation with high, humanitarian ideals.

HansJ


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Old March 24th 05, 02:04 PM
freddy
 
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Hans J=F8rgen Lassen wrote:
What can be learned from this Fischer-story?

1. That the American state (and a portion of the American people,

though
definitely not all) is as vindictive as the God of the Old Testament.

2. That any excuse will be used, in this case a ridiculous crime such

as
playing 20 games of chess with an old friend.

3. That too many people believe in their leaders and do not use their

heads
for thinking. I mean, how can anyone in their right mind consider 20

games
of chess a serious crime?



All true. This is a country which locks up petty shoplifters for life,
while corporate theft of billions and war crimes go virtually
unpunished.

4. That freedom of speech is an abstraction. You are free to say

whatever
you want to - as long as you hail the sacred American state.


About the only freedom left here is the "freedom" to boast about how
"free" we are. Anything else and you will be locked up or at a minimum
ostracized.

5. That Japan is not a free country, but an American slave.


Well, wait a minute-they let him go.
6. That Iceland is a proud nation with high, humanitarian ideals.

HansJ



maybe-but the final chapter has yet to be written. Any body who speaks
out against the Jews or calls for Bush to be "hung" will be hunted to
the grave by the neo-cons.

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Old March 24th 05, 02:19 PM
Hans Jørgen Lassen
 
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"freddy" wrote:

Well, wait a minute-they let him go.


You got a point there, and I have no good theory. Maybe enough is just
enough. Could they really pull this one any longer?

maybe-but the final chapter has yet to be written. Any body who speaks
out against the Jews or calls for Bush to be "hung" will be hunted to
the grave by the neo-cons.


Speaking out against Israel can cost you your job, even here in Denmark. And
threats on your life are sure to arrive in your mail.

HansJ


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Old March 24th 05, 03:26 PM
John A Swartz
 
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Default


Hans Jørgen Lassen wrote:

What can be learned from this Fischer-story?

1. That the American state (and a portion of the American people, though
definitely not all) is as vindictive as the God of the Old Testament.

2. That any excuse will be used, in this case a ridiculous crime such as
playing 20 games of chess with an old friend.


Gee, that just tugs at the heart strings. Bobby simply wanted to play
chess with an old friend... If only I could pocket the lions share of 5
million dollars for doing the same...

3. That too many people believe in their leaders and do not use their heads
for thinking. I mean, how can anyone in their right mind consider 20 games
of chess a serious crime?

4. That freedom of speech is an abstraction. You are free to say whatever
you want to - as long as you hail the sacred American state.


You don't appear worried that the US might be coming for you... ;-)

5. That Japan is not a free country, but an American slave.

6. That Iceland is a proud nation with high, humanitarian ideals.


7. That Bobby Fischer will continue to be idolized by chess fans
worldwide, who will forgive his non-chess-related crimes because of his
great chess accomplishments (which, ironically, have hardly been
discussed at all during this entire ordeal).

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Old March 24th 05, 03:50 PM
Sam Sloan
 
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:26:06 -0500, John A Swartz
wrote:


Hans Jørgen Lassen wrote:

What can be learned from this Fischer-story?

1. That the American state (and a portion of the American people, though
definitely not all) is as vindictive as the God of the Old Testament.

2. That any excuse will be used, in this case a ridiculous crime such as
playing 20 games of chess with an old friend.


Gee, that just tugs at the heart strings. Bobby simply wanted to play
chess with an old friend... If only I could pocket the lions share of 5
million dollars for doing the same...

3. That too many people believe in their leaders and do not use their heads
for thinking. I mean, how can anyone in their right mind consider 20 games
of chess a serious crime?

4. That freedom of speech is an abstraction. You are free to say whatever
you want to - as long as you hail the sacred American state.


You don't appear worried that the US might be coming for you... ;-)


I know that the US is coming after me, and have been so for a long
time.

Sam Sloan


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Old March 24th 05, 04:35 PM
Hans Jørgen Lassen
 
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Default

"John A Swartz" wrote:

Gee, that just tugs at the heart strings. Bobby simply wanted to play
chess with an old friend... If only I could pocket the lions share of 5
million dollars for doing the same...


Some have got what it takes. You have not, and neither have I.

You don't appear worried that the US might be coming for you... ;-)


I am just a nobody, an harmless old fool like Bobby, but not so well known.
And one thing I will never learn is to shut up, even when talking might be
harmful to myself. I lost three jobs for that reason, and I am not sorry at
all. Rather that than licking somebodys ass.

7. That Bobby Fischer will continue to be idolized by chess fans
worldwide, who will forgive his non-chess-related crimes because of his
great chess accomplishments (which, ironically, have hardly been discussed
at all during this entire ordeal).


John, did I at any time even mention Fischer's skills or accomplishments as
a chess player? If I did, I am sorry. These skills are not relevant at all.

Crimes??? Do you really and sincerely consider these 20 games with good old
Spasski a crime? A crime against you? Against the US? Against Father Bush?

How did I idolize Fischer?

HansJ


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Old March 24th 05, 04:55 PM
John A Swartz
 
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Default



7. That Bobby Fischer will continue to be idolized by chess fans
worldwide, who will forgive his non-chess-related crimes because of his
great chess accomplishments (which, ironically, have hardly been discussed
at all during this entire ordeal).



John, did I at any time even mention Fischer's skills or accomplishments as
a chess player? If I did, I am sorry. These skills are not relevant at all.


While I replied to your post, I did not necessarily mean that the
comment applied to you - I was referring generally to a larger group.
Apologies that this was unclear.


Crimes??? Do you really and sincerely consider these 20 games with good old
Spasski a crime? A crime against you? Against the US? Against Father Bush?


We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I believe he is guilty
of violating an Executive Order (and yes, I understand that you believe
it is illegal), and owes the US Gov't (and therefore, I guess, by some
extension, me) a lot of money from unpaid income taxes, and that he has
used the help of many who idolize his chess-playing ability to
circumvent the process of being deported back to the US for travelling
on a revoked passport.

How did I idolize Fischer?


Again, my comment was general, but your constant posting suggests, IMHO,
an idolization of Fischer (or maybe you just share his contempt of the US).

John
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Old March 24th 05, 05:17 PM
Hans Jørgen Lassen
 
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Default

"John A Swartz" wrote:

Crimes??? Do you really and sincerely consider these 20 games with good
old Spasski a crime? A crime against you? Against the US? Against Father
Bush?


I would like to repeat the above question. Do you, and I mean you, your
self, a grown, and to all appearances a sensible person, consider these 20
games a crime? I am not asking about what your masters think nor about
American law; these things I know all too well. I am asking what you think.
Do you think that Fischer ought to be punished for having played 20 rather
bad games (excepting maybe the first one) with Spasski 13 years ago?

Again, my comment was general, but your constant posting suggests, IMHO,
an idolization of Fischer (or maybe you just share his contempt of the
US).


I must admit I have a soft spot for crazy persons, but idolize them I do
not. And I do share Fischer's contempt of the US, well not the US as such, I
just in general hate power as power will always be abused. Which happened in
this case. 8 months wasted in a Japanese prison. At the bidding of the
mighty US.

HansJ


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Old March 24th 05, 05:58 PM
John A Swartz
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Crimes??? Do you really and sincerely consider these 20 games with good
old Spasski a crime? A crime against you? Against the US? Against Father
Bush?



I would like to repeat the above question. Do you, and I mean you, your
self, a grown, and to all appearances a sensible person, consider these 20
games a crime? I am not asking about what your masters think nor about
American law; these things I know all too well. I am asking what you think.
Do you think that Fischer ought to be punished for having played 20 rather
bad games (excepting maybe the first one) with Spasski 13 years ago?


I believe I have answered the question, but I will provide what I hope
to be my final word on it:

I do not believe that playing chess games in and of itself is a crime,
HOWEVER:

My opinion is that Fischer defied an Executive Order by the Gov't of
whom he was a citizen (which, I will not claim I understand all the
legalities of which - but from what I know was in accordance with the
sanctions against the country of Yugoslavia at the time), and by his own
admission, has not paid income taxes since 1976. I therefore think that
he is a criminal that deserves prosecution in a US court of law - if he
is found innocent he should be free to go about his business, but the
fact that he refused to be deported back to US after travelling on a
revoked passport to me suggests he is merely trying to circumvent the
process, and I do not support the notion that Fischer is somehow "above
the law" (despite the claims that the US Gov't is acting in such a fashion).

I believe that Fischer should return to the US and have his day in court.



Again, my comment was general, but your constant posting suggests, IMHO,
an idolization of Fischer (or maybe you just share his contempt of the
US).



I must admit I have a soft spot for crazy persons, but idolize them I do
not. And I do share Fischer's contempt of the US, well not the US as such, I
just in general hate power as power will always be abused. Which happened in
this case. 8 months wasted in a Japanese prison. At the bidding of the
mighty US.


Or at Fischer's refusal to return to it...


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Old March 24th 05, 06:43 PM
Hans Jørgen Lassen
 
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Default

We seem to harbour fundamentally different views on a couple of things. You
think that what Father Bush decreed (contrary to American law) is the LAW in
a holy sense. I prefer that people think for themselves and do not let their
masters do their thinking.

Letting the masters think is what I hated about communism and why I declare
myself an anarchist.

You have chosen otherwise. You refuse to judge yourself on whether Fischer
should be punished for playing chess in Serbia. Like a soldier obeying
orders.

For good order: I think it was morally wrong for Fischer to play in Serbia.
But still, I am unable to consider it a crime, EO's or not.

HansJ



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