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Old May 15th 05, 03:52 AM
Nick
 
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Default Should We Ever Boycott Anything for Any Reason?

Sam Sloan wrote:
(snipped)
The best example came last year when the World
Chess Championship was held in Tripoli, Libya.
At first it was announced that Jewish and even
Israeli players would be allowed to compete.
Eventually, it developed that Jewish players
could not play.


The claim, 'Jewish players could not play',
is another falsehood by Sam Sloan (who tends
to keep reiterating his falsehoods).

In rec.games.chess.misc., Roman Parparov (who represents
Israel's official chess organisation) has written that
there were several Jewish players (though no Israeli
players) at the FIDE World Chess Championship tournament
in Tripoli, Libya.

If there was ever a good time for a boycott, this was it.
However, the lure of big prize money was too great, so
almost all the non-Jewish invited players decided to attend.
The boycott achieved only limited success.


Vadim Milov (who has an Israeli passport) took legal action
against FIDE (the International Federation of Chess).
The Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled, on the basis
of Swiss law, in favour of FIDE, stating that FIDE had
done enough to enable Milov to play in Libya and that
he should have been able to do so.

--Nick

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Old May 15th 05, 07:33 PM
Angelo DePalma
 
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I don't think there was ever a formal "boycott" of French products. There
was a lot of talk about it, but let's face it. If you're used to drinking
Ch. Latour and eating $23/lb cheese you're probably unsympathetic to the
boycotters' cause. Which was what, by the way? That the French should have
been as stupid as we and invaded Iraq?

I actually was sympathetic in the beginning, but even so I ordered my
Bordeaux futures.

"Ken [NY]" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 May 2005 16:19:21 GMT, (Sam Sloan)
claims:

I believe that we should never boycott anybody, for any reason.
Boycotts are almost never successful and usually wind up hurting the
boycotter more than the boycotted.


Many in the US boycotted French goods, especially whine. Oops,
I mean wine. The French wine industry is suffering along with their
tourism, so I suppose that it worked as intended. But of course the
French learned nothing and would treat Americans and the US the same
anyway, so it really doesn't matter all that much over here.

Cordially,
Ken (NY)

The Seven Dwarves of Menopause:
Itchy, Bitchy, Sleepy, Sweaty, Bloated, Forgetful and Psycho

email:
http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

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Old May 15th 05, 08:17 PM
Mark Houlsby
 
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Fidel Castro might disagree.

Excellent point. Boy, you're cooking today.

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Old May 18th 05, 03:50 PM
Obwon
 
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On Tue, 17 May 2005 15:39:44 -0400, "Ken [NY]"
wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2005 14:33:48 -0400, "Angelo DePalma"
claims:

I don't think there was ever a formal "boycott" of French products. There
was a lot of talk about it, but let's face it. If you're used to drinking
Ch. Latour and eating $23/lb cheese you're probably unsympathetic to the
boycotters' cause.


Americans don't have formal boycotts, but refuse to buy from
our enemies, and France IS our enemy.
But we are not the only people boycotting French goods:


Oh really? France is now an enemy? Why?
Because they tried to stop us from sacrificing
the lives of American Citizens on a fruitless chase
after non-existent wmd's? Are you really, really, really
glad that we've lost and are losing so many soldiers?
Are you really, really, really glad that we've spent
hundreds of billions of dollars on a war that did not
need to be fought? Are you really, really, really glad
that so many Iraqi citizens have lost their lives? Lost
their families? Lost their businesses, property, economy,
access to safe drinking water, healthcare? And all needlessly
because there was no plan to attack us?

Do you really believe that we should be going around
the world challenging soverign governments with our
military might, in an attempt to bring freedom and democracy
to a people? If so, then you have no understanding
of just how complex a task it is to prepare people
to govern themselves. Here we are two years out and
there's still no sign of nationalism among the "freed"
populace. Oh but there is nationalism out there in the
land, unfortunately it's in the minds of the insurgents.

You have, of course, some plan or vision of how
that might be quickly turned around? By all means
share it with us. Or better still, better share it with
the Bush Adm., so we can, the sooner, bring our
troops home.

Obwon
`,,`,,',,
0[ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ]0
Liars share with those they deceive
the desire not to be deceived.
--Sissela Bok
0[ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ]0
`,,`,,',,


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Old May 18th 05, 04:06 PM
Mark Houlsby
 
Posts: n/a
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You have, of course, some plan or vision of how
that might be quickly turned around? By all means
share it with us. Or better still, better share it with
the Bush Adm., so we can, the sooner, bring our
troops home.

Finally, an intelligent and *informed* post on the topic - and from a
citizen of the USA. Bravo.

"You can fool some of the people all the time and all the people some
of the time; but you can't fool all the people all the time."
--Abraham Lincoln (Attrib.)

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Old May 19th 05, 02:55 AM
Angelo DePalma
 
Posts: n/a
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The anti-France stuff is silly beyond belief. The French are our friends.
The average Frenchman will readily acknowledge what we did for them during
the 2 world wars. I'm not crazy about French economics or French foreign
policy, but if I had to rank the various nations in terms of their culture
and ideals, or where I wouldn't mind living, France would be right up there.
It's a very poor friend indeed who agrees with you on everything. I wish,
regarding Iraq, that the French sentiments and common sense had prevailed. I
truly believe this misadventure will be the undoing of our country.



"Ken [NY]" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 May 2005 14:33:48 -0400, "Angelo DePalma"
claims:

I don't think there was ever a formal "boycott" of French products. There
was a lot of talk about it, but let's face it. If you're used to drinking
Ch. Latour and eating $23/lb cheese you're probably unsympathetic to the
boycotters' cause.


Americans don't have formal boycotts, but refuse to buy from
our enemies, and France IS our enemy.
But we are not the only people boycotting French goods:

"As from mid-night of 19 April 2005, Sikhs all over the world are
urged to be selective when purchasing items or securing services that
are connected with France until such time that the French Government
reverts to a more civilised and legal position that complies with
international laws safeguarding Human Rights of the individual
concerned with religion and religious practices."
http://www.sikhnet.com/Sikhnet/news....6?OpenDocument

and....

Ed Koch to Jews: "Boycott France"

All supporters of Israel should boycott French wine, cheese, perfume
and clothing, as well as refuse to visit France as tourists, until the
French government recalls its ambassador to Britain, and either
cashiers or demotes him.

Cause for Boycott:
France's Anti-Semitism
http://www.hsje.org/cause_for_boycott_frances_anti.htm

French flags no longer are flying high and proud outside the Sofitel
Hotel in midtown Manhattan. The French-owned hotel chain, part of the
French hotel company Accor, whose units include U.S. motel chains Red
Roof Inn and Motel 6, replaced the flags with the Stars and Stripes as
a peace offering to its American guests.

Sofitel spokesman Paul Charoy said the company last week decided to
remove the French flags in front of all eight of its hotels in the
United States as a "precautionary" measure and replaced them with a
combination of the American flag and city and state flags.

"We wanted to calm down the situation a little," Charoy said. "We were
getting some severe feelings and threats directed toward the safety
and security of our employees and customers."
http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/13/news/companies/sofitel/

Has boycotting French goods been successful? Again, probably,
but to what end?

Cordially,
Ken (NY)

The Seven Dwarves of Menopause:
Itchy, Bitchy, Sleepy, Sweaty, Bloated, Forgetful and Psycho

email: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

spammers can send mail to



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Old May 19th 05, 05:00 PM
Obwon
 
Posts: n/a
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On Wed, 18 May 2005 21:55:15 -0400, "Angelo DePalma"
wrote:


The anti-France stuff is silly beyond belief. The French are our friends.
The average Frenchman will readily acknowledge what we did for them during
the 2 world wars. I'm not crazy about French economics or French foreign
policy, but if I had to rank the various nations in terms of their culture
and ideals, or where I wouldn't mind living, France would be right up there.
It's a very poor friend indeed who agrees with you on everything. I wish,
regarding Iraq, that the French sentiments and common sense had prevailed. I
truly believe this misadventure will be the undoing of our country.

Well, history lends much credence to you fears. For,
as Bush & Co., is learning, military might does not
translate into either acceptance or compliance equal
to consent. And there's a whole lot more to be said
on just that particular part of this entire subject, but
I could sit here for weeks writing volumes and still
not say everything that needs to be said.

But, let's try to describe what we've accomplished
in this "fight for freedom" for Iraqi's. Have we, for instance,
instilled in them any sort of confidence that they will be
able to govern themselves? That's a major question
that needs to be answered by anyone who wishes
to believe that our mission us on it's way towards its
stated goal.

Obviously the answer is no! Unfortunately, since
these people did not have the necessary plans, had
not built up the necessary will, had no warning of
the coming invasion. They were suddenly surprised
to find their own gov't so quickly defeated, any idea
of nationalism had be to quickly subliminated, --OR--,
if not, then one had to be prepared to accept "full frontal"
humiliation. The human mind doesn't work that way,
it tends to evade the unpleasant as long as it possibly
can, then, if forced to make peace with itself, it tends
to decieve it's owner with delusions of rationalizations.

So, to keep from facing their own woeful defeat, they
might try to replace the issues with a vision of now being
free, but unfortunately life isn't that simple. And having
real freedom to do what one wants, to live as one chooses,
to peacefully persue personal happiness, comes with
some heavy responsibilities that require knowledge,
tolerance and self restraint -- among other things --
to maintain. None of which, of course, do we see
even the beginings of taking hold in Iraq, or even
being "preached" in the most rudimentary sort of ways.

What is happening, therefore, is that a "jinogistic"
language of freedom and democracy are being learned.
It's mere "freedom speak" and "democracy speak", that
are the required "coin of the realm" of the Occupied
country. Forced upon them by irrationally paranoid
Occupiers, who for political reasons need certain things
from the people, things that require the Occupiers to
keep the people in the dark. Ha! So much so for
causing the region to topple towards democracy!

If they're going to topple towards anything it will
be chaos. The "cancer" that works against the Bush
Adm., plans, visions and promises are the very poisonous
failures that one can expect to come as part and parcel
of a military occupation and control operation. Having
neither mended fences with the people, having demeaned
their religious beliefs (Abu Gharib?), having sowed travest,
tragedy and repression/control, it is unlikely we'll ever
be able to separate the issues of nation building from
the mistakes that have been made.

So, given the human condition, the longer we stay
the less likely it becomes that peace, no less freedom
or democracy, will ever come to that land. Nor will
Bush ever be able to spin his way out of this disaster
his shortsighted vision and lack of self restraint created.

Obwon


"Ken [NY]" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 15 May 2005 14:33:48 -0400, "Angelo DePalma"
claims:

I don't think there was ever a formal "boycott" of French products. There
was a lot of talk about it, but let's face it. If you're used to drinking
Ch. Latour and eating $23/lb cheese you're probably unsympathetic to the
boycotters' cause.


Americans don't have formal boycotts, but refuse to buy from
our enemies, and France IS our enemy.
But we are not the only people boycotting French goods:

"As from mid-night of 19 April 2005, Sikhs all over the world are
urged to be selective when purchasing items or securing services that
are connected with France until such time that the French Government
reverts to a more civilised and legal position that complies with
international laws safeguarding Human Rights of the individual
concerned with religion and religious practices."
http://www.sikhnet.com/Sikhnet/news....6?OpenDocument

and....

Ed Koch to Jews: "Boycott France"

All supporters of Israel should boycott French wine, cheese, perfume
and clothing, as well as refuse to visit France as tourists, until the
French government recalls its ambassador to Britain, and either
cashiers or demotes him.

Cause for Boycott:
France's Anti-Semitism
http://www.hsje.org/cause_for_boycott_frances_anti.htm

French flags no longer are flying high and proud outside the Sofitel
Hotel in midtown Manhattan. The French-owned hotel chain, part of the
French hotel company Accor, whose units include U.S. motel chains Red
Roof Inn and Motel 6, replaced the flags with the Stars and Stripes as
a peace offering to its American guests.

Sofitel spokesman Paul Charoy said the company last week decided to
remove the French flags in front of all eight of its hotels in the
United States as a "precautionary" measure and replaced them with a
combination of the American flag and city and state flags.

"We wanted to calm down the situation a little," Charoy said. "We were
getting some severe feelings and threats directed toward the safety
and security of our employees and customers."
http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/13/news/companies/sofitel/

Has boycotting French goods been successful? Again, probably,
but to what end?

Cordially,
Ken (NY)

The Seven Dwarves of Menopause:
Itchy, Bitchy, Sleepy, Sweaty, Bloated, Forgetful and Psycho

email: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

spammers can send mail to



`,,`,,',,
0[ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ]0
Liars share with those they deceive
the desire not to be deceived.
--Sissela Bok
0[ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ]0
`,,`,,',,
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Old May 20th 05, 07:12 PM
Mark Houlsby
 
Posts: n/a
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Only a fool buys a French car.

Then my Dad is a fool. He bought two Renaults one after the other.

Then my friend Bill is a fool. He drives a taxi for a living. He bought
two Peugeots one after the other, and said that the second of these was
the best, most profitable car he had ever owned.

Then my friend Tony is a fool. He bought a Peugeot... and on and on.
Only a fool suggests that only a fool buys a French car.

There aint a French film on within 75 miles of me.


Try renting DVDs, or else you'll miss out on some of the finest films
ever made. Anything directed by Jean Renoir. "Jean de Florette" and
"Manon des Sources" by Claude Berri. "Napoleon" by Abel Gance. "Le
Grand Bleu" by Luc Besson... and on, and on.

In addition, many of the finest composers/painters/sculptors who ever
lived were French.

Only a fool precludes himself from much of the best of culture that is
to be found anywhere in the world.

Have a nice day, now.

Fool.

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Old May 20th 05, 07:18 PM
Mark Houlsby
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You're just jealous that he (she?) can actually read.

Try reading Proust. Or Sartre. Or Hugo. Or...

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