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Old September 2nd 05, 04:27 PM
 
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Default Parr's definition of "International Swiss" tournament

INTERNATIONAL SWISS

So, Larry, you are saying that the connotation of "international
Swiss" was fundamentally different in, say, 1983, compared to, say,
1998? Taylor Kingston

Needless to say, our 2300+ Elo powermeister snipped his false claim
about his over-the-board strength (about 500 points lower than he
claimed).

As for Mr. Kingston's question, if a tournament is billed as being
international and if it were a swiss played 20 or 30 years back or so
before the phrase "intenational swiss" came to have a definite meaning,
then he might call his tournament an international swiss. Otherwise,
no.

That was my take, clearly stated.

Just because someone wins a Swiss with players from many nations
doesn't make it an "international swiss." Mr. Kingston is free to
disagree.

The FIDE definition narrows itself to swisses which are eligible for
title norms. It just so happens this is the Best Question in Chess Life
(September 2005, page 46, Evans On Chess):

TITLE NORMS

Q. I've seen mention of "IM norms" and "GM norms." What exactly must
happen to achieve these norms? I assume an unrated player can't win a
single event and get a title overnight.

A. Grandmaster (GM) norms require a performance rating of 2601 and
International Master (IM) 2451. Two such norms are needed. A round
robin must have at least 9 rounds, no more than two unrated players, no
more than two games a day, and a reasonably slow time limit. It must
include players from at least three FIDE nations, and no more than
two-thirds can be from the same nation. If a Swiss has at least 20
foreign FIDE-rated players with 10 GMs or IMs, the two-thirds rule
doesn't apply. For more specifics check out FIDE.com and click handbook


www.http://fide.com/official/handbook.asp

Since FIDE raked in over $126,000 in application fees in 2003, making
titles harder to get would entail a financial hardship.

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Old September 2nd 05, 05:40 PM
Mike Murray
 
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On 2 Sep 2005 08:36:53 -0700, "Taylor Kingston"
wrote:


wrote:
INTERNATIONAL SWISS
Just because someone wins a Swiss with players from many nations
doesn't make it an "international swiss." Mr. Kingston is free to
disagree.
The FIDE definition narrows itself to swisses which are eligible for
title norms. It just so happens this is the Best Question in Chess Life
(September 2005, page 46, Evans On Chess):


So is the FIDE definition also your definition, Larry? And please
answer my previous question: did the definition change materially
between 1983 and 1986?


"International Swiss"? Surely, one has to distinguish between (1) the
dictionary definition or common usage of the term, (2) the formal
definition of the term by a sanctioning body (of which there may be
several), (3) the *intention" of organizers or sponsors to apply that
term to their event.

Hard to have meaningful discussion without being clear about which of
these contexts one intends.

Analogy: "tax shelter". The formal definition of what qualifies can
change as often as laws and regulations change, while what we
typically understand by the term remains pretty constant. And the tax
people sometimes claim the term to be inappropriately applied to
various schemes marketed by promoters.
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Old September 3rd 05, 11:39 PM
Taylor Kingston
 
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Mike Murray wrote:
So is the FIDE definition also your definition, Larry? And please
answer my previous question: did the definition change materially
between 1983 and 1986?


"International Swiss"? Surely, one has to distinguish between (1) the
dictionary definition or common usage of the term, (2) the formal
definition of the term by a sanctioning body (of which there may be
several), (3) the *intention" of organizers or sponsors to apply that
term to their event.


Thanks for the post, Mike, but I'm really interested only in Larry
Parr's answer right now. Specifically, did what Parr considers the
correct definition, or the common connotation, of "international Swiss"
change materially between 1983 and 1986?

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Old September 4th 05, 01:38 PM
David Richerby
 
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Taylor Kingston wrote:
Thanks for the post, Mike, but I'm really interested only in Larry
Parr's answer right now.


In that case, please contact him by E-mail. If you make comments in a
public discussion forum, expect public discussion of them.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Unholy Frozen Bulb (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a light bulb but it's frozen in a
block of ice and also a crime against
nature!


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Old September 4th 05, 02:40 PM
Taylor Kingston
 
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David Richerby wrote:
Taylor Kingston wrote:
Thanks for the post, Mike, but I'm really interested only in Larry
Parr's answer right now.


In that case, please contact him by E-mail. If you make comments in a
public discussion forum, expect public discussion of them.


But you see, Dave, I would like to have Parr's answer publicly, in
this forum. He has given what he *now* considers a proper definition. I
would also like to know from Parr himself: did what Parr considers the
correct definition, or the common connotation, of "international Swiss"
change materially between 1983 and 1986?

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Old September 4th 05, 06:11 PM
[email protected]
 
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Specifically, did what Parr considers the correct definition, or the
common connotation, of "international Swiss" change materially between
1983 and 1986? Taylor Kingston

I have absolutely no idea about the parliamentary history of
FIDE's committees re international swisses from 1983 to 1986.

None!

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Old September 5th 05, 02:03 AM
[email protected]
 
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What is the importance of a FIDE definition?

Self-proclaimed 2300+ ELO Grand Coulee NM Taylor Kingston want to know
the legislative history of FIDE's definitions. One doubts that even
FIDE can answer that question, given the doubtful and ever-changing
state of its records and minutes.

"Anything is possible with this FIDE gang in power...FIDE apparatchiks
seldom have been accused of competence." -- Evans On Chess (Chess Life,
September 2005, page 46).

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