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Old September 13th 05, 10:13 PM
Ray Gordon
 
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Default CHEATING is the NUMBER ONE chess issue

The chess establishment better get its act together to stop cheaters at
tournaments.

The same rules which are used for the SATs and other exams (like the Bar
Exam) need to be in place for chess.

That means no cellphones, no spectators, no unsupervised bathroom breaks,
etc.

The "honor system" simply no longer works.

What is the USCF doing to ensure that no one can cheat at its events?



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Old September 13th 05, 10:30 PM
 
Posts: n/a
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Ray Gordon wrote:
The chess establishment better get its act together to stop cheaters at
tournaments.

The same rules which are used for the SATs and other exams (like the Bar
Exam) need to be in place for chess.

That means no cellphones, no spectators, no unsupervised bathroom breaks,
etc.

The "honor system" simply no longer works.

What is the USCF doing to ensure that no one can cheat at its events?


So Ray, when and where was the last USCF tournament that you played at
that you suspected someone cheating?

We just had a tournament here in Peoria, Illinois and this cheating
that you claim is certainly not an issue.

Maybe, you're talking of the "big money" tournaments like the Chicago
Open or the World Open. If so, the cheating issue is more the concern
of the tournament organizer and tournament director, not the USCF. The
USCF should and does offer guidelines of what to do when such cheating
is found. But it is certainly not the USCF's responsibility to govern
for cheating.

Back to my initial question and point. What prompts you to create this
problem? Have you personally seen this terrible cheating occur or been
the poor victim of such cheating yourself? Do you personally know
someone that has seen or has been the victim of such cheating?

How do you know this cheating exists? Is it your contention that
because it can exist, it does?

If you weren't just trolling with your post, then you need to qualify
and quantify your statement in the subject header.

Ron Suarez

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Old September 13th 05, 10:41 PM
Matt Nemmers
 
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Default

"Ray Gordon" wrote in message
...

What is the USCF doing to ensure that no one can cheat at its events?


When you become a member and play in ONE event, maybe -- MAYBE -- they'll
have an obligation to answer you.

MN


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Old September 13th 05, 10:54 PM
Ray Gordon
 
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Default

The "honor system" simply no longer works.

What is the USCF doing to ensure that no one can cheat at its events?


So Ray, when and where was the last USCF tournament that you played at
that you suspected someone cheating?


1990. I was playing a complicated line of the Dragon, when on move 13, my
opponent left the table, with his bookbag, went to the bathroom for 15-20
minutes, came back, and had a winning position five moves later. Even if he
didn't cheat, he should have realized the impression he was making.


We just had a tournament here in Peoria, Illinois and this cheating
that you claim is certainly not an issue.


How do you know? What precautions were taken?


Maybe, you're talking of the "big money" tournaments like the Chicago
Open or the World Open. If so, the cheating issue is more the concern
of the tournament organizer and tournament director, not the USCF.


USCF is the sanctioning body so it's definitely their concern. They can set
regulations for all tournaments in this country.

The
USCF should and does offer guidelines of what to do when such cheating
is found. But it is certainly not the USCF's responsibility to govern
for cheating.


How nice to hear that!


Back to my initial question and point. What prompts you to create this
problem?


Pocket Fritz?

Have you personally seen this terrible cheating occur or been
the poor victim of such cheating yourself? Do you personally know
someone that has seen or has been the victim of such cheating?


I do know people who have admitted to cheating, and I'm well aware of how it
can be done. In the past, one had to know a GM or an IM to do it
effectively, and even then it was nowhere near as easy.

How do you know this cheating exists? Is it your contention that
because it can exist, it does?


Well the human-nature argument is sufficient for me, but I do know it goes
on. On the other hand, even the appearance that it can happen is enough of
a deterrent to people who want an honest tournament.

If you weren't just trolling with your post, then you need to qualify
and quantify your statement in the subject header.


You're awfully defensive for someone who claims this is not a problem. Top
GMs have spoken out about this.

I know enough about how to cheat that I could have won an open section of a
major tournament if I had chosen to (now people would be looking out for it,
of course, so I couldn't do it).

I see people cheating in ONE minute games online, and if that's possible,
doing so at an OTB tournament with slow time controls is child's play by
comparison.



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Old September 13th 05, 11:01 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ray Gordon wrote:
The chess establishment better get its act together to stop cheaters at
tournaments.

The same rules which are used for the SATs and other exams (like the Bar
Exam) need to be in place for chess.

That means no cellphones, no spectators, no unsupervised bathroom breaks,
etc.

The "honor system" simply no longer works.

What is the USCF doing to ensure that no one can cheat at its events?


So Ray, when and where was the last USCF tournament that you played at
that you suspected someone cheating?

We just had a tournament here in Peoria, Illinois and this cheating
that you claim is certainly not an issue.

Maybe, you're talking of the "big money" tournaments like the Chicago
Open or the World Open. If so, the cheating issue is more the concern
of the tournament organizer and tournament director, not the USCF. The
USCF should and does offer guidelines of what to do when such cheating
is found. But it is certainly not the USCF's responsibility to govern
for cheating.

Back to my initial question and point. What prompts you to create this
problem? Have you personally seen this terrible cheating occur or been
the poor victim of such cheating yourself? Do you personally know
someone that has seen or has been the victim of such cheating?

How do you know this cheating exists? Is it your contention that
because it can exist, it does?

If you weren't just trolling with your post, then you need to qualify
and quantify your statement in the subject header.

Ron Suarez



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Old September 13th 05, 11:04 PM
Catalan
 
Posts: n/a
Default



"Ray Gordon" wrote in message
...

The chess establishment better get its act together to stop cheaters at
tournaments.

The same rules which are used for the SATs and other exams (like the Bar
Exam) need to be in place for chess.

That means no cellphones, no spectators, no unsupervised bathroom breaks,
etc.

The "honor system" simply no longer works.

What is the USCF doing to ensure that no one can cheat at its events?


We're thinking of hiring you to check what people have in their hand when
they're taking a leak.



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Old September 14th 05, 02:25 AM
zdrakec
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ray writes:
"I see people cheating in ONE minute games online, and if that's
possible,
doing so at an OTB tournament with slow time controls is child's play
by
comparison. "

You knew they were cheating because they beat you, right?

More disdain,
zdrakec

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Old September 17th 05, 05:01 AM
Ray Gordon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"I see people cheating in ONE minute games online, and if that's
possible,
doing so at an OTB tournament with slow time controls is child's play
by
comparison. "

You knew they were cheating because they beat you, right?


If they are supercomputers, they beat everyone.

It's how they do it that gives them away.

One of them dusted a 2600 player in 15 moves a game, 10 games in a row,
using half as much time.



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Old September 19th 05, 09:34 PM
zdrakec
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"If they are supercomputers, they beat everyone. "

Yes, I'm sure that people who own supercomputers have no better use for
them than to win 1-minute games on ICC....

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