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Old October 29th 05, 04:47 PM
arodobop
 
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Default GM Nakamura's comments on USCF

http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt/

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Old October 30th 05, 01:06 AM
 
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Default GM Nakamura's comments on USCF

I think Nakamura has a bright future if they start making Charlie
Chan movies once again.

Old Haasie

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Old October 30th 05, 03:19 AM
Mike Murray
 
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Default GM Nakamura's comments on USCF

On 29 Oct 2005 18:22:00 -0700, "Taylor Kingston"
wrote:


wrote:
I think Nakamura has a bright future if they start making Charlie
Chan movies once again.


That would be a first -- Charlie Chan being played by an actual
Oriental.


A small point of political correctness: AFAIK, calling someone of
Asian ancestry an "Oriental" is like referring to someone's "Scotch
Grandmother". "Oriental" is used for products, like rugs, just as
"Scotch" refers to whiskey. "Asian" and "Scot" or "Scottish" is used
for people.

This seems to be a relatively recent preference; my guess is it comes
from academia. I worked with quite a few people of Chinese and
Japanese ancestry and many of them said it made no difference. But
"Asian" seems safer.
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Old October 30th 05, 01:51 PM
[email protected]
 
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Default GM Nakamura's comments on USCF

ASIAN VS. ORIENTAL

I worked with quite a few people of Chinese and
Japanese ancestry and many of them said it made no
difference. But "Asian" seems safer. -- Mike Murray


The issue really becomes: where do the wogs
begin? They begin, sir, at Calais. The authority
here is no less than Lord Curzon, India's greatest
viceroy, at least in terms of literary output.

Getting rid of Oriental loses a lot. A guy over
here who just lost his Malay girlfriend (she ran off
with another mat salleh) was referred to as
disorientalled for a period.



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Old October 30th 05, 04:13 PM
Mike Murray
 
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Default GM Nakamura's comments on USCF

On 30 Oct 2005 05:51:35 -0800, "
wrote:

ASIAN VS. ORIENTAL


I worked with quite a few people of Chinese and
Japanese ancestry and many of them said it made no
difference. But "Asian" seems safer. -- Mike Murray


The issue really becomes: where do the wogs
begin? They begin, sir, at Calais. The authority
here is no less than Lord Curzon, India's greatest
viceroy, at least in terms of literary output.


Getting rid of Oriental loses a lot. A guy over
here who just lost his Malay girlfriend (she ran off
with another mat salleh) was referred to as
disorientalled for a period.


In the late 60's, my desk was in one of those great bullpens for which
the Lazy-B was known. Right in front of me sat a programmer of
Chinese ancestry, not long in the States. One day, he had flash of
insight, spun around in his chair and said, "To me, you are all
foreigners", then went back to work.
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Old October 30th 05, 05:16 PM
Taylor Kingston
 
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Default GM Nakamura's comments on USCF


Mike Murray wrote:
A small point of political correctness: AFAIK, calling someone of
Asian ancestry an "Oriental" is like referring to someone's "Scotch
Grandmother". "Oriental" is used for products, like rugs, just as
"Scotch" refers to whiskey. "Asian" and "Scot" or "Scottish" is used
for people.


I was aware of the Scotch/Scottish distinction, but applying it to
"Oriental" is a new one on me.

This seems to be a relatively recent preference; my guess is it comes
from academia. I worked with quite a few people of Chinese and
Japanese ancestry and many of them said it made no difference. But
"Asian" seems safer.


The only point I was trying to make was that Nakamura was much closer
to the right ethnic background for playing the Chinese detective, while
the two actors best known for Chan were of North European descent. As
for "Asian" replacing "Oriental," I'm not sure it works in this
context. Asians include Turks, Arabs, Indians and many other groups
considered, as far as I know, biologically more closely related to
Western peoples than to those of the Far East.

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Old October 30th 05, 05:34 PM
Jeremy Spinrad
 
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Default GM Nakamura's comments on USCF

You are correct that this comes from academia. The idea is that Oriental, meaning
Eastern, is too "Eurocentric"; the correct term is now East Asian. I even heard a
student complaining about her professor's insensitivity because the professor had
used the term Oriental. However, there should be no notion that the term Oriental
is in any sense derogatory, even if you believe that the renaming to East Asian
is important. It is simply a term which some feel should be replaced. Similarly,
"colored" and "negro" are now not generally used, but remain in the name
of some national organizations since there are no particularly negative
associations with them.



Jerry Spinrad

In article . com, "Taylor Kingston" writes:
|
| Mike Murray wrote:
| A small point of political correctness: AFAIK, calling someone of
| Asian ancestry an "Oriental" is like referring to someone's "Scotch
| Grandmother". "Oriental" is used for products, like rugs, just as
| "Scotch" refers to whiskey. "Asian" and "Scot" or "Scottish" is used
| for people.
|
| I was aware of the Scotch/Scottish distinction, but applying it to
| "Oriental" is a new one on me.
|
| This seems to be a relatively recent preference; my guess is it comes
| from academia. I worked with quite a few people of Chinese and
| Japanese ancestry and many of them said it made no difference. But
| "Asian" seems safer.
|
| The only point I was trying to make was that Nakamura was much closer
| to the right ethnic background for playing the Chinese detective, while
| the two actors best known for Chan were of North European descent. As
| for "Asian" replacing "Oriental," I'm not sure it works in this
| context. Asians include Turks, Arabs, Indians and many other groups
| considered, as far as I know, biologically more closely related to
| Western peoples than to those of the Far East.
|
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Old October 30th 05, 06:18 PM
Mike Murray
 
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Default GM Nakamura's comments on USCF

On 30 Oct 2005 09:16:28 -0800, "Taylor Kingston"
wrote:

The only point I was trying to make was that Nakamura was much closer
to the right ethnic background for playing the Chinese detective, while
the two actors best known for Chan were of North European descent.


Agreed. I wasn't implying an ethnic slur on your part.

As
for "Asian" replacing "Oriental," I'm not sure it works in this
context. Asians include Turks, Arabs, Indians and many other groups
considered, as far as I know, biologically more closely related to
Western peoples than to those of the Far East.


Well, PC and preferences can't always be stretched into rational
self-consistency.
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Old October 30th 05, 06:22 PM
Jeremy Spinrad
 
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Default GM Nakamura's comments on USCF

In article , Mike Murray writes:
| On 30 Oct 2005 09:16:28 -0800, "Taylor Kingston"
| wrote:
|
| The only point I was trying to make was that Nakamura was much closer
| to the right ethnic background for playing the Chinese detective, while
| the two actors best known for Chan were of North European descent.
|
| Agreed. I wasn't implying an ethnic slur on your part.
|
| As
| for "Asian" replacing "Oriental," I'm not sure it works in this
| context. Asians include Turks, Arabs, Indians and many other groups
| considered, as far as I know, biologically more closely related to
| Western peoples than to those of the Far East.

Actually, the new terms are East Asiam (includes Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and
some others), South Asians (includes Indians, Pakistanits, Sri Lankans, and some
others), and other subcategories. Although I am not a huge fan of the new
terminology, it is no worse than the old terminology.

Jerry Spinrad

|
| Well, PC and preferences can't always be stretched into rational
| self-consistency.
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