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Old October 30th 05, 04:13 PM
Taylor Kingston
 
Posts: n/a
Default My Wikipedia Biography of Norman Tweed Whitaker

There are so many errors in this, both of omission and commission,
that Wikipedia's editors should remove it immediately. I have flagged
just a few that leaped out from a quick skim:

Sam Sloan wrote:
Norman Tweed Whitaker
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Norman Tweed Whitaker (b. April 9, 1890 in Philadelphia - died May,
1975 in Georgia) was an International Master of chess. He graduated
with a law degree from the University of Pennsylvania but was soon
thereafter disbarred from the practice of law.

By 1913, Whitaker was one of the strongest chess players in the United
States.


1913? Very debatable. At New York 1913 he scored only 5½-7½,
sharing =8-9th with Tenewurzel, behind Capablanca, Marshall, Jaffe,
Janowski, Chajes, Stapfer and Kupchik, ahead of only the small fry
Kline, S. Rubinstein (*not* _the_ Rubinstein), Morrison, Liebenstein
and Zapoléon. In June 1916 he was dismantled by 56-year-old Jackson
Showalter +1 -6 =0. It's hard to put Whitaker in the US top 10 before,
say,1918.

In 1928, Whitaker played first board for the United States in the
World Chess Olympiad.


Whitaker never played on an Olympiad team. The 1928 US team was
Kashdan, H. Steiner, Factor, Tholfsen and Hanauer.

He played for the 1928 World Amateur Chess
Championship but lost to Max Euwe.


It would be more accurate to say that Whitaker finished =4-6th, with
Golmayo and Treybal, scoring 9½-5½, behind Euwe (12-3), Przepiorka
(11-4) and Matisons (10-5). Whitaker lost 4 games, to Euwe, Przepiorka,
Matisons, and Carls.

Whitaker was arrested several times for petty crimes and swindles,
including putting slugs into parking meters.


Also twice for felony grand theft (auto), not to mention for sending
narcotics through the mail, and sexual molestation of a minor. Rather
more than "petty" crimes.

In 1932, Whitaker became notorious during the Lindbergh
kidnapping. During the Lindbergh Kidnapping, a former FBI Agent named
Gaston B. Means concocted a scheme to swindle some money from a
wealthy heiress by claiming to be in contact with the kidnappers. The
heiress agreed to pay ransom money in the amount of $100,000.


$104,000 actually.

Means
used Whitaker as the bagman to pick up the money.


Whitaker's main role was to pose as one of the "gangsters" involved
in the kidnapping.

Whitaker got out after only 18 months in jail, but was soon arrested
for another crime for which he served 14 years on Alcatraz.


Whitaker never served 14 years in any prison for any one crime. I'm
not sure his total prison time amounted to 14 years in all. His stay in
Alcatraz lasted only from late 1935 to late December 1936 or early
January 1937.

After his release from prison, Whitaker once again became one of the
top chess players in America and one of the most active players in
America and Europe.


Nonsense. He was a washed-up has-been trying to convince people he
was still good.

He played in many US Opens and in the 1948 U.S.
Chess Championship in South Fallsburg, New York.


Where he showed that he was definitely way over the hill, scoring
6-13 (+4 -11 =4) to finish 16th of 20, 9 points behind winner Herman
Steiner, ahead of only the immortals Howard, Almgren, Suraci, and
Janes, and beating only other tail-enders. In 1951 his USCF rating was
only 2180.

The last years of his
life were spent driving around the country in his Volkswagen Beetle
playing in weak tournaments he could win in the South.


Also in attempts to undermine the fledgling USCF and encourage racist
policies in US chess. Oh, and let's not forget his ongoing pedophilia
-- at age 68, he tried to persuade the parents of a 14-year-old girl
that she should marry him. They wisely refused.
He also sought out other has-beens who might help him get the IM
title. He managed to draw a short match with Saemisch in 1960, who
later hinted that he threw games to humor the "mad American."

Books
Shady side: The life and crimes of Norman Tweed Whitaker, chessmaster
by John Samuel Hilbert (2000) ISBN 0939433575


Sam shows his customary depth of research, by citing a book he
obviously has not read.

  #2   Report Post  
Old October 30th 05, 09:09 PM
Elton Jones
 
Posts: n/a
Default My Wikipedia Biography of Norman Tweed Whitaker

"Taylor Kingston" -- at age 68, he tried to persuade the parents of a
14-year-old girl
that she should marry him. They wisely refused.

Sounds like he was Sam Sloan's mentor?


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Old October 31st 05, 01:39 PM
Taylor Kingston
 
Posts: n/a
Default My Wikipedia Biography of Norman Tweed Whitaker


So, Sam -- when may we expect those "immediate corrections" you are
supposedly famous for? Have you updated your Wikipedia entry to remove
the errors? I realize that would not leave much, but a man's gotta do
what a man's gotta do.

Taylor Kingston wrote:
There are so many errors in this, both of omission and commission,
that Wikipedia's editors should remove it immediately. I have flagged
just a few that leaped out from a quick skim:

Sam Sloan wrote:
Norman Tweed Whitaker
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Norman Tweed Whitaker (b. April 9, 1890 in Philadelphia - died May,
1975 in Georgia) was an International Master of chess. He graduated
with a law degree from the University of Pennsylvania but was soon
thereafter disbarred from the practice of law.

By 1913, Whitaker was one of the strongest chess players in the United
States.


1913? Very debatable. At New York 1913 he scored only 5½-7½,
sharing =8-9th with Tenewurzel, behind Capablanca, Marshall, Jaffe,
Janowski, Chajes, Stapfer and Kupchik, ahead of only the small fry
Kline, S. Rubinstein (*not* _the_ Rubinstein), Morrison, Liebenstein
and Zapoléon. In June 1916 he was dismantled by 56-year-old Jackson
Showalter +1 -6 =0. It's hard to put Whitaker in the US top 10 before,
say,1918.

In 1928, Whitaker played first board for the United States in the
World Chess Olympiad.


Whitaker never played on an Olympiad team. The 1928 US team was
Kashdan, H. Steiner, Factor, Tholfsen and Hanauer.

He played for the 1928 World Amateur Chess
Championship but lost to Max Euwe.


It would be more accurate to say that Whitaker finished =4-6th, with
Golmayo and Treybal, scoring 9½-5½, behind Euwe (12-3), Przepiorka
(11-4) and Matisons (10-5). Whitaker lost 4 games, to Euwe, Przepiorka,
Matisons, and Carls.

Whitaker was arrested several times for petty crimes and swindles,
including putting slugs into parking meters.


Also twice for felony grand theft (auto), not to mention for sending
narcotics through the mail, and sexual molestation of a minor. Rather
more than "petty" crimes.

In 1932, Whitaker became notorious during the Lindbergh
kidnapping. During the Lindbergh Kidnapping, a former FBI Agent named
Gaston B. Means concocted a scheme to swindle some money from a
wealthy heiress by claiming to be in contact with the kidnappers. The
heiress agreed to pay ransom money in the amount of $100,000.


$104,000 actually.

Means
used Whitaker as the bagman to pick up the money.


Whitaker's main role was to pose as one of the "gangsters" involved
in the kidnapping.

Whitaker got out after only 18 months in jail, but was soon arrested
for another crime for which he served 14 years on Alcatraz.


Whitaker never served 14 years in any prison for any one crime. I'm
not sure his total prison time amounted to 14 years in all. His stay in
Alcatraz lasted only from late 1935 to late December 1936 or early
January 1937.

After his release from prison, Whitaker once again became one of the
top chess players in America and one of the most active players in
America and Europe.


Nonsense. He was a washed-up has-been trying to convince people he
was still good.

He played in many US Opens and in the 1948 U.S.
Chess Championship in South Fallsburg, New York.


Where he showed that he was definitely way over the hill, scoring
6-13 (+4 -11 =4) to finish 16th of 20, 9 points behind winner Herman
Steiner, ahead of only the immortals Howard, Almgren, Suraci, and
Janes, and beating only other tail-enders. In 1951 his USCF rating was
only 2180.

The last years of his
life were spent driving around the country in his Volkswagen Beetle
playing in weak tournaments he could win in the South.


Also in attempts to undermine the fledgling USCF and encourage racist
policies in US chess. Oh, and let's not forget his ongoing pedophilia
-- at age 68, he tried to persuade the parents of a 14-year-old girl
that she should marry him. They wisely refused.
He also sought out other has-beens who might help him get the IM
title. He managed to draw a short match with Saemisch in 1960, who
later hinted that he threw games to humor the "mad American."

Books
Shady side: The life and crimes of Norman Tweed Whitaker, chessmaster
by John Samuel Hilbert (2000) ISBN 0939433575


Sam shows his customary depth of research, by citing a book he
obviously has not read.


  #4   Report Post  
Old November 5th 05, 07:49 PM
Sam Sloan
 
Posts: n/a
Default My Wikipedia Biography of Norman Tweed Whitaker

On 31 Oct 2005 05:39:27 -0800, "Taylor Kingston"
wrote:


So, Sam -- when may we expect those "immediate corrections" you are
supposedly famous for? Have you updated your Wikipedia entry to remove
the errors? I realize that would not leave much, but a man's gotta do
what a man's gotta do.


Taylor Kingston has to be the most amazing and arrogant assholes ever
to grace these groups. He has read exactly one book on the subject
which he otherwise knows nothing about, and with that information he
claims that he knows everything about the subject and that nobody else
knows anything.

There are two pictures of Sam Sloan in the book. They are on pages 211
and 246. I am the source for some of the material in the book. Taylor
Kingston probably never met Norman T. Whitaker and certainly knows
nothing about him.

The fact is that I can just leaf through the book and find numerous
errors. However, I am not going to do what Taylor Kingston does, which
go through a book by somebody he does not like, list a bunch of errors
which he claims exist in the book, and then spend the next decade over
and over again attacking the book for the trivial errors which he
found.

The book by John S. Hilbert is a great work. It is true that it
contains errors, but any book which is 481 pages long in small print
with each page filled with information is bound to contain errors.

Just to cite one example,. on page v. is a picture which the author
claims is a picture of Whitaker. However, Whitaker is not in the
picture.

Taylor Kingston wrote:
There are so many errors in this, both of omission and commission,
that Wikipedia's editors should remove it immediately. I have flagged
just a few that leaped out from a quick skim:


One big advantage to Wikipedia is that if you disagree with what
somebody else posted there, you can correct it. However, Taylor
Kingston did not do that. Instead he used Wikipedia as a pedestal to
attack me. However, all of his corrections have since been removed by
a Wikipedia administrator.

Sam Sloan wrote:
Norman Tweed Whitaker
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Norman Tweed Whitaker (b. April 9, 1890 in Philadelphia - died May,
1975 in Georgia) was an International Master of chess. He graduated
with a law degree from the University of Pennsylvania but was soon
thereafter disbarred from the practice of law.


In this paragraph I made two errors which Taylor Kingston did not
notice.

Actually, Whitaker did not die in Georgia, but he is buried there. He
died just across the state line in Phenix City, Alabama. Also, he got
his undergraduate degree from the University of Pennsylvania. His law
degree was from Georgetown University.

By 1913, Whitaker was one of the strongest chess players in the United
States.


Absolutely correct. I know this because I went through every issue on
American Chess Bulletin (1904-1963) in the Mechanics Institute Library
and there were many articles about Whitaker even earlier than 1913.

Of course, Taylor Kingston has never read American Chess Bulletin and
he thinks he knows everything because of the one book he has read.

1913? Very debatable. At New York 1913 he scored only 5=BD-7=BD,
sharing =3D8-9th with Tenewurzel, behind Capablanca, Marshall, Jaffe,
Janowski, Chajes, Stapfer and Kupchik, ahead of only the small fry
Kline, S. Rubinstein (*not* _the_ Rubinstein), Morrison, Liebenstein
and Zapol=E9on. In June 1916 he was dismantled by 56-year-old Jackson
Showalter +1 -6 =3D0. It's hard to put Whitaker in the US top 10 before,
say,1918.


The fact that Whitaker played in a round robin tournament in 1913 with
Capablanca, Marshall, Jaffe, Janowski, Chajes and Kupchik, who were
six of the best players in the world at the time, should be enough to
tell you that Whitaker was one of the best players in the country, .

In 1928, Whitaker played first board for the United States in the
World Chess Olympiad.


Absolutely correct. Whitaker won the National Chess Championship in
1927, and therefore he was first board on the 1928 Olympiad team.

Whitaker never played on an Olympiad team. The 1928 US team was
Kashdan, H. Steiner, Factor, Tholfsen and Hanauer.


Wrong. The 1928 US team was Whitaker, Kashdan, H. Steiner, Factor,
Tholfsen and Hanauer.

Had Kingston read more than one book on the subject, he would have
known that there are six players on an Olympiad team. However, the
1928 event was in a different format from other Olympiads. In the
first place, it was not called an Olympiad, even though it has since
then been referred to as an Olympiad. Instead, it was called simply
the International Team Tournament.

The top player from each country played a round robin with the top
players from all the other countries. That is the reason why Whitaker
played in the same section with Euwe, who was clearly the best player
in Holland. The remaining players played in a more traditional team
format.

I agree that Kashdan and Steiner were eventually better than Whitaker,
but Whitaker was older than they were and perhaps for that reason he
was placed on top board.

He played for the 1928 World Amateur Chess
Championship but lost to Max Euwe.


It would be more accurate to say that Whitaker finished =3D4-6th, with
Golmayo and Treybal, scoring 9=BD-5=BD, behind Euwe (12-3), Przepiorka
(11-4) and Matisons (10-5). Whitaker lost 4 games, to Euwe, Przepiorka,
Matisons, and Carls.


What I wrote is exactly correct. I wrote: "He played for the 1928
World Amateur Chess Championship but lost to Max Euwe." That is
entirely correct. Kingston wants me to add that Whitaker also lost to
Przepiorka, Matisons, and Carls. What would be the point to that?
Although they were the best players in their respective countries at
the time, they are unknown today.

Whitaker was arrested several times for petty crimes and swindles,
including putting slugs into parking meters.


Also twice for felony grand theft (auto), not to mention for sending
narcotics through the mail, and sexual molestation of a minor. Rather
more than "petty" crimes.


As I understand it, Whitaker did not actually steal the cars, although
he helped others. I really do not know much about this, so I will
leave this one to Taylor Kingston who is more familiar with such
matters.

In 1932, Whitaker became notorious during the Lindbergh
kidnapping. During the Lindbergh Kidnapping, a former FBI Agent named
Gaston B. Means concocted a scheme to swindle some money from a
wealthy heiress by claiming to be in contact with the kidnappers. The
heiress agreed to pay ransom money in the amount of $100,000.


$104,000 actually.


Not a big deal, especially since I was writing from memory, not
reading from a book.

Means used Whitaker as the bagman to pick up the money.


Whitaker's main role was to pose as one of the "gangsters" involved
in the kidnapping.

Whitaker got out after only 18 months in jail, but was soon arrested
for another crime for which he served 14 years on Alcatraz.


Whitaker never served 14 years in any prison for any one crime. I'm
not sure his total prison time amounted to 14 years in all.


Whitaker played no published games between 1931 and 1947. This tells
us that he was elsewhere during this period.

His stay in
Alcatraz lasted only from late 1935 to late December 1936 or early
January 1937.


I was quoting from a letter which was published in Chess Life magazine
in about 1999. The author wrote that Whitaker had served the time on
Alcatraz. On pages 301 and 302, Hilbert also says that the same writer
wrote that Whitaker had served the time on Alcatraz.

After his release from prison, Whitaker once again became one of the
top chess players in America and one of the most active players in
America and Europe.


Nonsense. He was a washed-up has-been trying to convince people he
was still good.


Whitaker got good scores in several US Opens after his release from
prison, a fact not noted in Hilbert's book, and since Kingston knows
nothing other than what is written in Hilbert's book, he does not know
about this.


He played in many US Opens and in the 1948 U.S.
Chess Championship in South Fallsburg, New York.


Where he showed that he was definitely way over the hill, scoring
6-13 (+4 -11 =3D4) to finish 16th of 20, 9 points behind winner Herman
Steiner, ahead of only the immortals Howard, Almgren, Suraci, and
Janes, and beating only other tail-enders.


The fact that Whitaker got into the US Closed Championship is enough
to show that he was one of the top players in the country, even though
he got a poor result in the tournament. Kingston's statement would be
like saying that because Bobby Fischer did poorly in Buenos Aires
1960, he was a weak player.

In 1951 his USCF rating was only 2180.


The USCF rating system was just getting off the ground and I do not
think this means much.

The last years of his
life were spent driving around the country in his Volkswagen Beetle
playing in weak tournaments he could win in the South.


Also in attempts to undermine the fledgling USCF and encourage racist
policies in US chess. Oh, and let's not forget his ongoing pedophilia
-- at age 68, he tried to persuade the parents of a 14-year-old girl
that she should marry him. They wisely refused.


As far as I know, this was not illegal.

He also sought out other has-beens who might help him get the IM
title. He managed to draw a short match with Saemisch in 1960, who
later hinted that he threw games to humor the "mad American."


Since Taylor Kingston does not know much about chess, he does not know
that by 1960 Fritz Saemisch was completely insane. Saemisch would get
invited to international tournaments where in every game he would play
only about ten moves and then sit transfixed for two hours until he
lost on time. Naturally, since Saemisch had the grandmaster title,
organizers would invite him so as to manufacture titles for others.
Obviously, Whitaker would contact Saemisch to get the international
title for himself. Whether Whitaker actually played Saemisch I do not
know, although Whitaker told me that he was trying to arrange a match
with Saemisch. One question left unanswered by Hilbert's book is
exactly how and when did Whitaker get the International Master title.
I have asked many FIDE officials this question, and nobody seems to
know.

Books
Shady side: The life and crimes of Norman Tweed Whitaker, chessmaster
by John Samuel Hilbert (2000) ISBN 0939433575


Sam shows his customary depth of research, by citing a book he
obviously has not read.


Not only have I read the book but I am one of the sources for the
book. What is really annoying is that I had to get the book out of
storage and take the time to write this in order to be able to respond
to the ridiculous claims made by Taylor Kingston.

Sam Sloan

  #5   Report Post  
Old November 5th 05, 09:51 PM
Taylor Kingston
 
Posts: n/a
Default My Wikipedia Biography of Norman Tweed Whitaker

Sam Sloan wrote:
One big advantage to Wikipedia is that if you disagree with what
somebody else posted there, you can correct it. However, Taylor
Kingston did not do that.


No kidding? I guess then that the corrections I remember writing and
signing my name to were done by someone else named Taylor Kingston.

Instead he used Wikipedia as a pedestal to
attack me. However, all of his corrections have since been removed by
a Wikipedia administrator.


Look again, Sam. My corrections have been incorporated into the
entry, replacing false information entered by you.

The fact that Whitaker played in a round robin tournament in 1913 with
Capablanca, Marshall, Jaffe, Janowski, Chajes and Kupchik, who were
six of the best players in the world at the time, should be enough to
tell you that Whitaker was one of the best players in the country, .


In 1913 Whitaker was not in the class of those six, and it's quite a
stretch to put Jaffe, Chajes and Kupchik among the "best in the world."


Whitaker won the National Chess Championship in
1927, and therefore he was first board on the 1928 Olympiad team.
The 1928 US team was Whitaker, Kashdan, H. Steiner, Factor,
Tholfsen and Hanauer.


Sam confuses the team Olympiad with the World Amateur Championship,
an individual tournament. Whitaker played in the latter, never in the
former.

1928 event was in a different format from other Olympiads. In the
first place, it was not called an Olympiad, even though it has since
then been referred to as an Olympiad. Instead, it was called simply
the International Team Tournament.


Quite true (for once).

The top player from each country played a round robin with the top
players from all the other countries. That is the reason why Whitaker
played in the same section with Euwe, who was clearly the best player
in Holland. The remaining players played in a more traditional team
format.


Thank you for confirming my point that Whitaker did not play on the
Olympiad team.

What I wrote is exactly correct. I wrote: "He played for the 1928
World Amateur Chess Championship but lost to Max Euwe." That is
entirely correct.


It's very incomplete and gives a false impression. In describing a
tournament, one does not say that the 5th-place finisher lost to the
winner, one says he finished 5th.

Kingston wants me to add that Whitaker also lost to
Przepiorka, Matisons, and Carls. What would be the point to that?
Although they were the best players in their respective countries at
the time, they are unknown today.


Ah, that would explain why I did not know of them.

Whitaker was arrested several times for petty crimes and swindles,
including putting slugs into parking meters.

Also twice for felony grand theft (auto), not to mention for sending
narcotics through the mail, and sexual molestation of a minor. Rather
more than "petty" crimes.


As I understand it, Whitaker did not actually steal the cars, although
he helped others.


Read "Shady Side" chapter 4. The 1921 theft of the Franklin Touring
Car was Whitaker's brainchild from start to finish. I believe he
personally used acid to burn off the ID number.

In 1932, Whitaker became notorious during the Lindbergh
kidnapping. During the Lindbergh Kidnapping, a former FBI Agent named
Gaston B. Means concocted a scheme to swindle some money from a
wealthy heiress by claiming to be in contact with the kidnappers. The
heiress agreed to pay ransom money in the amount of $100,000.

$104,000 actually.


Not a big deal, especially since I was writing from memory, not
reading from a book.


It's not a big deal in a mere newgroup post, but it *_is_* a big deal
when put into an encyclopedia article. One does not write a reference
article, intended to inform others accurately, using only a memory
which has been shown over and over to be seriously flawed. One does
careful research.

Whitaker never served 14 years in any prison for any one crime. I'm
not sure his total prison time amounted to 14 years in all.


Whitaker played no published games between 1931 and 1947. This tells
us that he was elsewhere during this period.


And you think this proves he spent 14 years in Alcatraz??

His stay in
Alcatraz lasted only from late 1935 to late December 1936 or early
January 1937.


I was quoting from a letter which was published in Chess Life magazine
in about 1999.


And Hilbert was reporting from Whitaker's actual prison records and
personal papers.

The author wrote that Whitaker had served the time on
Alcatraz. On pages 301 and 302, Hilbert also says that the same writer
wrote that Whitaker had served the time on Alcatraz.


There is nothing about any 14 years in Alcatraz on those pages.

Whitaker got good scores in several US Opens after his release from
prison,


That hardly makes him one of America's top players of the time.

He played in many US Opens and in the 1948 U.S.
Chess Championship in South Fallsburg, New York.


Where he showed that he was definitely way over the hill, scoring
6-13 (+4 -11 =3D4) to finish 16th of 20, 9 points behind winner Herman
Steiner, ahead of only the immortals Howard, Almgren, Suraci, and
Janes, and beating only other tail-enders.


The fact that Whitaker got into the US Closed Championship is enough
to show that he was one of the top players in the country, even though
he got a poor result in the tournament. Kingston's statement would be
like saying that because Bobby Fischer did poorly in Buenos Aires
1960, he was a weak player.


Nonsense. Fischer never had another result remotely as bad as Buenos
Aires 1960 and went on to become world champion. Whitaker had no such
post-1948 success, never played in another US Championship after 1948,
with good reason.

In 1951 his USCF rating was only 2180.


The USCF rating system was just getting off the ground and I do not
think this means much.


Dr. Elo's math says it does.

Also in attempts to undermine the fledgling USCF and encourage racist
policies in US chess. Oh, and let's not forget his ongoing pedophilia
-- at age 68, he tried to persuade the parents of a 14-year-old girl
that she should marry him. They wisely refused.


As far as I know, this was not illegal.


When in 1950 he sexually molested a minor, it certainly was illegal.
His racism and pedophilic desires, while not illegal, do show his
character. I think this should be included in an encyclopedia entry.

He also sought out other has-beens who might help him get the IM
title. He managed to draw a short match with Saemisch in 1960, who
later hinted that he threw games to humor the "mad American."


Since Taylor Kingston does not know much about chess, he does not know
that by 1960 Fritz Saemisch was completely insane.


Debatable. Eccentric and distracted, yes, but it's a stretch to say
insane, as a September 1968 article by Donner mades clear ('Old Chess
Player', reprinted in "The King" (NIC 1997) pages 91-93).

Saemisch would get
invited to international tournaments where in every game he would play
only about ten moves and then sit transfixed for two hours until he
lost on time. Naturally, since Saemisch had the grandmaster title,
organizers would invite him so as to manufacture titles for others.
Obviously, Whitaker would contact Saemisch to get the international
title for himself.


Thank you for supporting my point about the dubious means Whitaker
used to get the IM title.

Books
Shady side: The life and crimes of Norman Tweed Whitaker, chessmaster
by John Samuel Hilbert (2000) ISBN 0939433575


Not only have I read the book but I am one of the sources for the
book. What is really annoying is that I had to get the book out of
storage and take the time to write this in order to be able to respond
to the ridiculous claims made by Taylor Kingston.


What an imposition! Sam wants to write a reference article about
Whitaker, and we have the gall to suggest that he consult the only
biography about him. Next, people will be expecting their ministers to
consult the Bible when they talk about Jesus. What's the world coming
to?!



  #6   Report Post  
Old November 5th 05, 11:21 PM
Sam Sloan
 
Posts: n/a
Default My Wikipedia Biography of Norman Tweed Whitaker

On 5 Nov 2005 13:51:45 -0800, "Taylor Kingston"
wrote:

Sam Sloan wrote:
One big advantage to Wikipedia is that if you disagree with what
somebody else posted there, you can correct it. However, Taylor
Kingston did not do that.


No kidding? I guess then that the corrections I remember writing and
signing my name to were done by someone else named Taylor Kingston.


You posted as 69.171.206.182 . We know from your style and your
history of personal attacks that it was you. What you did was improper
and would get you banned if you were registered with Wikipedia, which
you are not.

Instead he used Wikipedia as a pedestal to
attack me. However, all of his corrections have since been removed by
a Wikipedia administrator.


Look again, Sam. My corrections have been incorporated into the
entry, replacing false information entered by you.


All he did was take the neutral position of eleminating everything
except those points on which we both agree, but in so doing he cut the
heart out of the article.

The fact that Whitaker played in a round robin tournament in 1913 with
Capablanca, Marshall, Jaffe, Janowski, Chajes and Kupchik, who were
six of the best players in the world at the time, should be enough to
tell you that Whitaker was one of the best players in the country, .


In 1913 Whitaker was not in the class of those six, and it's quite a
stretch to put Jaffe, Chajes and Kupchik among the "best in the world."


Kupchik certainly was among the best in the world until the 1940s and
by the standards on 1913 Chajes and Jaffe wrre both top level players.
Kupchik is rated 2480 by Elo, but he was clearly stronger. Chajes is
rated 2440 and Jaffe is rated 2430. All three of them defeated
Capablanca in tournament games.


Whitaker won the National Chess Championship in
1927, and therefore he was first board on the 1928 Olympiad team.
The 1928 US team was Whitaker, Kashdan, H. Steiner, Factor,
Tholfsen and Hanauer.


Sam confuses the team Olympiad with the World Amateur Championship,
an individual tournament. Whitaker played in the latter, never in the
former.

1928 event was in a different format from other Olympiads. In the
first place, it was not called an Olympiad, even though it has since
then been referred to as an Olympiad. Instead, it was called simply
the International Team Tournament.


Quite true (for once).

The top player from each country played a round robin with the top
players from all the other countries. That is the reason why Whitaker
played in the same section with Euwe, who was clearly the best player
in Holland. The remaining players played in a more traditional team
format.


Thank you for confirming my point that Whitaker did not play on the
Olympiad team.


Try to get this through your dim brain, stupid.

The 1928 World Amateur Championship and the 1928 International Team
Tournament were the same event, not two different events. They were
simply two different sections of the same tournament.

What I wrote is exactly correct. I wrote: "He played for the 1928
World Amateur Chess Championship but lost to Max Euwe." That is
entirely correct.


It's very incomplete and gives a false impression. In describing a
tournament, one does not say that the 5th-place finisher lost to the
winner, one says he finished 5th.


It does not matter what "one" says. You should not purport to correct
something if it is not wrong.

Kingston wants me to add that Whitaker also lost to
Przepiorka, Matisons, and Carls. What would be the point to that?
Although they were the best players in their respective countries at
the time, they are unknown today.


Ah, that would explain why I did not know of them.

Whitaker was arrested several times for petty crimes and swindles,
including putting slugs into parking meters.

Also twice for felony grand theft (auto), not to mention for sending
narcotics through the mail, and sexual molestation of a minor. Rather
more than "petty" crimes.


As I understand it, Whitaker did not actually steal the cars, although
he helped others.


Read "Shady Side" chapter 4. The 1921 theft of the Franklin Touring
Car was Whitaker's brainchild from start to finish. I believe he
personally used acid to burn off the ID number.

In 1932, Whitaker became notorious during the Lindbergh
kidnapping. During the Lindbergh Kidnapping, a former FBI Agent named
Gaston B. Means concocted a scheme to swindle some money from a
wealthy heiress by claiming to be in contact with the kidnappers. The
heiress agreed to pay ransom money in the amount of $100,000.

$104,000 actually.


Not a big deal, especially since I was writing from memory, not
reading from a book.


It's not a big deal in a mere newgroup post, but it *_is_* a big deal
when put into an encyclopedia article. One does not write a reference
article, intended to inform others accurately, using only a memory
which has been shown over and over to be seriously flawed. One does
careful research.


Good. Then why do you not do so? You constantly lie, claiming that you
know things which you do not know.

Whitaker never served 14 years in any prison for any one crime. I'm
not sure his total prison time amounted to 14 years in all.


Whitaker played no published games between 1931 and 1947. This tells
us that he was elsewhere during this period.


And you think this proves he spent 14 years in Alcatraz??

His stay in
Alcatraz lasted only from late 1935 to late December 1936 or early
January 1937.


I was quoting from a letter which was published in Chess Life magazine
in about 1999.


And Hilbert was reporting from Whitaker's actual prison records and
personal papers.


I do not know what Hilbert has, except that he has written that he has
a great volume of material. I doubt that he feels as certain of the
facts as you claim that he is.

The author wrote that Whitaker had served the time on
Alcatraz. On pages 301 and 302, Hilbert also says that the same writer
wrote that Whitaker had served the time on Alcatraz.


There is nothing about any 14 years in Alcatraz on those pages.


Kindly tell me where exactly is the letter in Chess Life. I would like
to look it up, but I cannot remember what month and what year it was
published.

If you do not know exactly when it was published, then stop lying by
claiming that you do know.

Whitaker got good scores in several US Opens after his release from
prison,


That hardly makes him one of America's top players of the time.


Why not?

He played in many US Opens and in the 1948 U.S.
Chess Championship in South Fallsburg, New York.


Where he showed that he was definitely way over the hill, scoring
6-13 (+4 -11 =3D4) to finish 16th of 20, 9 points behind winner Herman
Steiner, ahead of only the immortals Howard, Almgren, Suraci, and
Janes, and beating only other tail-enders.


The fact that Whitaker got into the US Closed Championship is enough
to show that he was one of the top players in the country, even though
he got a poor result in the tournament. Kingston's statement would be
like saying that because Bobby Fischer did poorly in Buenos Aires
1960, he was a weak player.


Nonsense. Fischer never had another result remotely as bad as Buenos
Aires 1960 and went on to become world champion. Whitaker had no such
post-1948 success, never played in another US Championship after 1948,
with good reason.

In 1951 his USCF rating was only 2180.


The USCF rating system was just getting off the ground and I do not
think this means much.


Dr. Elo's math says it does.

Here is the most amazing misstatement of all. Elo had nothing to do
with the 1951 USCF Rating list. Bill Byland did that, using the
Harkness System. Elo did not become involved with chess ratings until
1960.

Also in attempts to undermine the fledgling USCF and encourage racist
policies in US chess. Oh, and let's not forget his ongoing pedophilia
-- at age 68, he tried to persuade the parents of a 14-year-old girl
that she should marry him. They wisely refused.


As far as I know, this was not illegal.


When in 1950 he sexually molested a minor, it certainly was illegal.
His racism and pedophilic desires, while not illegal, do show his
character. I think this should be included in an encyclopedia entry.


It is still legal in some states for a 14 year old girl to marry with
her parents permission. I am not sure if these matters belong in
Wikipedia.

He also sought out other has-beens who might help him get the IM
title. He managed to draw a short match with Saemisch in 1960, who
later hinted that he threw games to humor the "mad American."


Since Taylor Kingston does not know much about chess, he does not know
that by 1960 Fritz Saemisch was completely insane.


Debatable. Eccentric and distracted, yes, but it's a stretch to say
insane, as a September 1968 article by Donner mades clear ('Old Chess
Player', reprinted in "The King" (NIC 1997) pages 91-93).


I have not read the article, so I can not comment. However, if you
look in old issues of Chess Informant you will see many international
events where Saemisch scored 0-9.

Saemisch would get
invited to international tournaments where in every game he would play
only about ten moves and then sit transfixed for two hours until he
lost on time. Naturally, since Saemisch had the grandmaster title,
organizers would invite him so as to manufacture titles for others.
Obviously, Whitaker would contact Saemisch to get the international
title for himself.


Thank you for supporting my point about the dubious means Whitaker
used to get the IM title.


Whitaker easily deserved the IM title by modern standards. Whitaker in
his prime was easily better than most IMs today.

Books
Shady side: The life and crimes of Norman Tweed Whitaker, chessmaster
by John Samuel Hilbert (2000) ISBN 0939433575


Not only have I read the book but I am one of the sources for the
book. What is really annoying is that I had to get the book out of
storage and take the time to write this in order to be able to respond
to the ridiculous claims made by Taylor Kingston.


What an imposition! Sam wants to write a reference article about
Whitaker, and we have the gall to suggest that he consult the only
biography about him. Next, people will be expecting their ministers to
consult the Bible when they talk about Jesus. What's the world coming
to?!


What is coming to that people such as myself who knew Whitaker unlike
you who did not know him feel we can write a short article about him.

I am really annoyed at myself for wasting a perfectly fine Saturday
responding to asinine attacks by Taylor Kingston.

Sam Sloan

  #7   Report Post  
Old November 6th 05, 11:49 AM
Skeptic
 
Posts: n/a
Default My Wikipedia Biography of Norman Tweed Whitaker

Not a big deal, especially since I was writing from memory, not
reading from a book.


Indeed so.

The criticism of Mr. Sloan's entry is divided into two: first, whether
he is making Whitaker look better than he was (describing him as a "top
player", not noting his coviction for child molestation, etc.), and,
second, factual mistakes (such as claiming he was 12 years in
Alcartraz.)

I have no issue with Mr. Sloan's choice of describing Whitaker as a
"top" player--that is, as he noted, a comparative term--or with not
noting Whitaker's child molestation (he did, after all, note he spent
time in jail and that he was a habitual criminal; must he quote every
sordid detail of his life in a Wikipedia article?). But the factual
mistakes are annoying.

Mr. Sloan obviously does know quite a bit about Whitaker, but he could
have saved himself most of the criticism in this thread by looking up
the details in John Hilbert's authorative book on Whitaker, "Shady
Side: The Life and Crimes of Norman Tweed Whitaker".

  #8   Report Post  
Old November 6th 05, 01:18 PM
Sam Sloan
 
Posts: n/a
Default My Wikipedia Biography of Norman Tweed Whitaker

On 6 Nov 2005 03:49:03 -0800, "Skeptic"
wrote:

Not a big deal, especially since I was writing from memory, not
reading from a book.


Indeed so.

The criticism of Mr. Sloan's entry is divided into two: first, whether
he is making Whitaker look better than he was (describing him as a "top
player", not noting his coviction for child molestation, etc.), and,
second, factual mistakes (such as claiming he was 12 years in
Alcartraz.)

I have no issue with Mr. Sloan's choice of describing Whitaker as a
"top" player--that is, as he noted, a comparative term--or with not
noting Whitaker's child molestation (he did, after all, note he spent
time in jail and that he was a habitual criminal; must he quote every
sordid detail of his life in a Wikipedia article?). But the factual
mistakes are annoying.

Mr. Sloan obviously does know quite a bit about Whitaker, but he could
have saved himself most of the criticism in this thread by looking up
the details in John Hilbert's authorative book on Whitaker, "Shady
Side: The Life and Crimes of Norman Tweed Whitaker".


The only person who has criticized me thus far is Taylor Kingston, who
criticizes and attacks everything I write. I am on the list of people
who are always attacked by Taylor Kingston. The others are Eric
Schiller, Raymond Keene, Larry Evans and Larry Parr.

While I agree that John Hilbert's work is authoritative, why do you
conclude that Hilbert knows more about Whitaker than I do? I played in
at least six chess tournaments in North Carolina in which Whitaker
also played and none of those tournaments are even mentioned in
Hilbert's book. I knew Norman Whitaker. John Hilbert did not.

It is unfortunate that so many people who knew Whitaker a lot better
than I did, such as Dr. Norman Hornstein, who both directed chess
tournaments in which Whitaker played and also conducted an annual
physical examination of Whitaker, are dead now and therefore could not
be interviewed by Dr. Hilbert. Incidentally, I just noticed that
Hornstein is not even mentioned in Hilbert's book. This is a big gap,
because Hornstein also published the Carolina Gambit, the state chess
magazine, which published lots of games by Whitaker, none of which are
in Hilbert's book. I am sure that Hornstein had a lot of Whitaker
material in his personal records.

Hilbert also does not cover Whitaker's chess playing career in Europe.
Every Summer, Whitaker went to Germany, bought a new Volkswagen, drove
it all over Europe playing in chess tournaments, imported it to the
US, drove it all over the US, and then sold it at a profit when the
time came for his next trip to Europe. Hilbert's book does not cover
this aspect of his life.

If I were Taylor Kingston or somebody of his ilk, I would criticize
Hilbert's book on these points. However, I do not do so because I
realize that Hilbert only had access to Whitaker's papers and could
only interview people who are still alive. Since Whitaker was born in
1890, very few people who knew him are still alive, and Dr. Hilbert
did the best he could possibly do with the limited material which he
had.

Sam Sloan
  #9   Report Post  
Old November 6th 05, 02:15 PM
Taylor Kingston
 
Posts: n/a
Default My Wikipedia Biography of Norman Tweed Whitaker


Sam Sloan wrote:
If I were Taylor Kingston or somebody of his ilk, I would criticize
Hilbert's book on these points.


Ah, then that explains the terrible flogging I gave "Shady Side" in
my review:

www.chesscafe.com/text/review240.pdf

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