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Old October 31st 05, 03:06 PM
Chess One
 
Posts: n/a
Default Blitz Theory

First of all I am writing this mainly to understand stuff from Tom Klem, a
man of huge experience but who nevertheless still plays the game! But of
course any blitz players are welcome chip in a comment from their own
experiences.

Tom! I'm writing to you here instead of chess.misc because I dunno if you
read there. I want to learn some stuff from you about your blitz playing
experience on line - and if you are agreeable I'll continue with a bunch of
questions.

For now; did you ever read Jonathon Maxwell's title, Blitz Theory? I have a
second edition of it for review. I really like it - a completely different
idea of using time.

Next and finally [I miss Clinton! He would have said 'finally of all'] Blitz
is the current topic among us tv moguls, especially rough-house OTB games
played by colorful ruffians and assorted devious characters g I would be
interested in chucking that topic about too. Especially any truly devious
real-life anecdotes.

Now - this is chess.politics not chess misc, and rather than apologise for
posting in the wrong newsgroup and therefore deviating from the very strict
standards here - surely to god a bunch of grown men could make this subject
political?

For example: En route we could wig Larry Parr - "Slow Chess is Dead!" Blitz
is the future of chess. Forget Snorsky and Cubablanket playing games for
MONTHS - O ha ha ha - - boring!! Sheep trials are more interesting --- this
sort of stuff

We could also try to get Randy Bauer to ignore us. And then officially
ignore us --- sample ideas only

No one plays that OLD stuff any more, and, well well well- where is USCF's
stake in the future? and... --- end of token political remonstration

"in anyone's experience at chess clubs what is the relative popularity among
players [not organisers] of blitz to any other time control". "What is the
relative popularity of blitz : other in on-line play?

Maybe we should define blitz as 5 mins or less?

Waddya thinking? This is enough stuff to kick it off, and I will try and ask
you nasty questions politely phrased should you decide to accept this
mission.

O - I can't quit this message without asking one more thing, about age - in
your opinion, does it matter so much at Blitz? Does it matter at all?

Cordially, Phil Innes, Champion of the New.

O hell - I'm going to cross post this thing to rgcm just in case anyone
there actually still plays chess. But you are the *Star* Tom - you get to
lead out the horsies on this one, and tell us which one's worth riding, and
which end which &c



  #2   Report Post  
Old October 31st 05, 05:26 PM
Tom Klem
 
Posts: n/a
Default Blitz Theory


"Chess One" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
First of all I am writing this mainly to understand stuff from Tom Klem, a
man of huge experience but who nevertheless still plays the game! But of
course any blitz players are welcome chip in a comment from their own
experiences.

Tom! I'm writing to you here instead of chess.misc because I dunno if you
read there. I want to learn some stuff from you about your blitz playing
experience on line - and if you are agreeable I'll continue with a bunch

of
questions.

For now; did you ever read Jonathon Maxwell's title, Blitz Theory? I have

a
second edition of it for review. I really like it - a completely different
idea of using time.


No. I'm not a proponent of Blitz. I only play Blitz to pass the time, I love
chess and because I cannot sit in one place long enough to play a decent
game. I would sit here all day and play STC if I could.

I don't care about my blitz rating. It's like eating popcorn. You just can't
eat one, you get indigestion, you're never satisfied (that's important when
you are trying to pass the time---or, something else), and you pick up a ton
of very bad habits from the analysis point of view. On the plus side, you do
see a lot of openings and you get to try out your favorite latest traps, and
so on.

Also, I do keep a decent ratings deviation in Slow Time Controls on all
three servers which the STC BUNCH is represented. If I didn't, I could
hardly try to promote Slow Time Controls (stcbunch.org) on the Internet.


Next and finally [I miss Clinton! He would have said 'finally of all']

Blitz
is the current topic among us tv moguls, especially rough-house OTB games
played by colorful ruffians and assorted devious characters g I would be
interested in chucking that topic about too. Especially any truly devious
real-life anecdotes.


Is there a question for me in the paragraph above?


Now - this is chess.politics not chess misc, and rather than apologise for
posting in the wrong newsgroup and therefore deviating from the very

strict
standards here - surely to god a bunch of grown men could make this

subject
political?

For example: En route we could wig Larry Parr - "Slow Chess is Dead!"

Blitz
is the future of chess. Forget Snorsky and Cubablanket playing games for
MONTHS - O ha ha ha - - boring!! Sheep trials are more interesting ---

this
sort of stuff

We could also try to get Randy Bauer to ignore us. And then officially
ignore us --- sample ideas only

No one plays that OLD stuff any more, and, well well well- where is USCF's
stake in the future? and... --- end of token political remonstration

"in anyone's experience at chess clubs what is the relative popularity

among
players [not organisers] of blitz to any other time control". "What is the
relative popularity of blitz : other in on-line play?


At least in Las Vegas, when I was still able to get out, Game in 30 was
about as fast as it ever got, with one or two blitz tournaments a year
thrown in for giggles.

Maybe we should define blitz as 5 mins or less?


I agree with that, and so apparently did Walter Browne and the WBCA before
they folded.


Waddya thinking? This is enough stuff to kick it off, and I will try and

ask
you nasty questions politely phrased should you decide to accept this
mission.


You can ask me anything you want. I don't mind. Don't always expect an
answer.


O - I can't quit this message without asking one more thing, about age -

in
your opinion, does it matter so much at Blitz? Does it matter at all?


Only if your mouse hand is shaking so much that you have lots of mouse slips
(I'm getting there).


Cordially, Phil Innes, Champion of the New.

O hell - I'm going to cross post this thing to rgcm just in case anyone
there actually still plays chess. But you are the *Star* Tom - you get to
lead out the horsies on this one, and tell us which one's worth riding,

and
which end which &c




FYI. This is the only newsgroup to which I am currently subscribed.


--
Tom Klem

Hackers, firewalls, traps, grep, xyzzy, Don Quixote. No wonder your little
head is spinning, especially when you use grep.



  #3   Report Post  
Old October 31st 05, 08:51 PM
Chess One
 
Posts: n/a
Default Blitz Theory


"Tom Klem" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

No. I'm not a proponent of Blitz. I only play Blitz to pass the time,


dang! another prang!

I love
chess and because I cannot sit in one place long enough to play a decent
game. I would sit here all day and play STC if I could.


get up, stand up, don't give up the fight

[for younger readers, STC is what we call an acronym, and it stands for
really boring old people's chess]

I don't care about my blitz rating. It's like eating popcorn. You just
can't
eat one, you get indigestion, you're never satisfied (that's important
when
you are trying to pass the time---or, something else),


i have the same thing with Chinese movies, you see one, then about an hour
later, you don't feel like you really saw it, and want to see another one

and you pick up a ton
of very bad habits from the analysis point of view. On the plus side, you
do
see a lot of openings and you get to try out your favorite latest traps,
and
so on.


which was why i mentioned the book - which has more to do with how to deal
with time and position rather than great chess art and position

Also, I do keep a decent ratings deviation in Slow Time Controls on all
three servers which the STC BUNCH is represented. If I didn't, I could
hardly try to promote Slow Time Controls (stcbunch.org) on the Internet.


this is a fabulous start to my survey, you are almost as boring as taylor
kingston on the subject of sex and the soviets. maybe i should have picked
on a young tiger...?

Next and finally [I miss Clinton! He would have said 'finally of all']

Blitz
is the current topic among us tv moguls, especially rough-house OTB games
played by colorful ruffians and assorted devious characters g I would
be
interested in chucking that topic about too. Especially any truly devious
real-life anecdotes.


Is there a question for me in the paragraph above?


certainly not! it is a gratuitous inclusion for my own purposes. O! well, I
see that I did make a point of asking for anecdotes of devious activities at
blitz play - i'll let you have another go at this paragraph before thowing
up my hands... well, just throwing up.

'old' stuff snipped

"in anyone's experience at chess clubs what is the relative popularity
among
players [not organisers] of blitz to any other time control". "What is
the
relative popularity of blitz : other in on-line play?


At least in Las Vegas, when I was still able to get out, Game in 30 was
about as fast as it ever got, with one or two blitz tournaments a year
thrown in for giggles.


what i should like to do is 2 things - if you e-mail me i will proceed to
not interview you for something i just sold our editor on - interviewing
plain ol' chess players rather than GMs, as i said, not interview but pose
you a bunch of questions about your experiences in, and thoughts on chess,
which gets you to write stuff and we can shlock it all together and publish
as an essay

the other thing will be to continue here with hopefully someone else who
actually likes to talk blitz stuff

Maybe we should define blitz as 5 mins or less?


I agree with that, and so apparently did Walter Browne and the WBCA before
they folded.


i have the rules they came up with and which Walter blessed - for tv 'we'
are thinking cruder, and will adapt those rules to conform with the current
paradigm of reality tv, by including substantially more sadism and public
humiliation - for example, instead of just taking away people's time for
cheating, we intend to take away chunks of their money too

Waddya thinking? This is enough stuff to kick it off, and I will try and

ask
you nasty questions politely phrased should you decide to accept this
mission.


You can ask me anything you want. I don't mind. Don't always expect an
answer.


roight

if we e-mail we can talk about anything we want, but i want to dedicate this
thread to blitz chess, and not breasts - i have noticed that all religions
are against them, whereas personally i have another opinion, but i am not
going to write about those feelings here but concentrate completely on blitz

that isn't a question either - its another gratuitous inclusion of my
personal weltansomethingorother

O - I can't quit this message without asking one more thing, about age -

in
your opinion, does it matter so much at Blitz? Does it matter at all?


Only if your mouse hand is shaking so much that you have lots of mouse
slips
(I'm getting there).


kasparov told me the same - "its he who is better with mouse"

FYI. This is the only newsgroup to which I am currently subscribed.


Laugh - /this/ one?

--
Tom Klem

Hackers, firewalls, traps, grep, xyzzy, Don Quixote. No wonder your little
head is spinning, especially when you use grep.


I am not grokking the grep. I only assume it means grape, as in vino.

Anyway, we have launched it - now everyone [snort] will want to have their
say. it better be good because i am serious about putting some blitz on tv,
and more to the point, so is 'la'

so, what's blitz all about?

cordially, phil




  #4   Report Post  
Old October 31st 05, 10:04 PM
Tom Klem
 
Posts: n/a
Default Blitz Theory

Well, now you've got me. Really boring, I am

Send me a message. I might be convinced to speak on this subject. You know
the address.


--
Tom Klem

"For as this appalling ocean surrounds the verdant land, so in the soul of
man there lies one insular Tahiti, full of peace and joy, but encompassed by
all the horrors of the half known life. God keep thee! Push not off from
that isle, thou canst never return!"
---Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Ch. 58



"Chess One" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"Tom Klem" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

No. I'm not a proponent of Blitz. I only play Blitz to pass the time,


dang! another prang!

I love
chess and because I cannot sit in one place long enough to play a decent
game. I would sit here all day and play STC if I could.


get up, stand up, don't give up the fight

[for younger readers, STC is what we call an acronym, and it stands for
really boring old people's chess]

I don't care about my blitz rating. It's like eating popcorn. You just
can't
eat one, you get indigestion, you're never satisfied (that's important
when
you are trying to pass the time---or, something else),


i have the same thing with Chinese movies, you see one, then about an hour
later, you don't feel like you really saw it, and want to see another one

and you pick up a ton
of very bad habits from the analysis point of view. On the plus side,

you
do
see a lot of openings and you get to try out your favorite latest traps,
and
so on.


which was why i mentioned the book - which has more to do with how to deal
with time and position rather than great chess art and position

Also, I do keep a decent ratings deviation in Slow Time Controls on all
three servers which the STC BUNCH is represented. If I didn't, I could
hardly try to promote Slow Time Controls (stcbunch.org) on the Internet.


this is a fabulous start to my survey, you are almost as boring as taylor
kingston on the subject of sex and the soviets. maybe i should have picked
on a young tiger...?

Next and finally [I miss Clinton! He would have said 'finally of all']

Blitz
is the current topic among us tv moguls, especially rough-house OTB

games
played by colorful ruffians and assorted devious characters g I would
be
interested in chucking that topic about too. Especially any truly

devious
real-life anecdotes.


Is there a question for me in the paragraph above?


certainly not! it is a gratuitous inclusion for my own purposes. O! well,

I
see that I did make a point of asking for anecdotes of devious activities

at
blitz play - i'll let you have another go at this paragraph before thowing
up my hands... well, just throwing up.

'old' stuff snipped

"in anyone's experience at chess clubs what is the relative popularity
among
players [not organisers] of blitz to any other time control". "What is
the
relative popularity of blitz : other in on-line play?


At least in Las Vegas, when I was still able to get out, Game in 30 was
about as fast as it ever got, with one or two blitz tournaments a year
thrown in for giggles.


what i should like to do is 2 things - if you e-mail me i will proceed to
not interview you for something i just sold our editor on - interviewing
plain ol' chess players rather than GMs, as i said, not interview but pose
you a bunch of questions about your experiences in, and thoughts on chess,
which gets you to write stuff and we can shlock it all together and

publish
as an essay

the other thing will be to continue here with hopefully someone else who
actually likes to talk blitz stuff

Maybe we should define blitz as 5 mins or less?


I agree with that, and so apparently did Walter Browne and the WBCA

before
they folded.


i have the rules they came up with and which Walter blessed - for tv 'we'
are thinking cruder, and will adapt those rules to conform with the

current
paradigm of reality tv, by including substantially more sadism and public
humiliation - for example, instead of just taking away people's time for
cheating, we intend to take away chunks of their money too

Waddya thinking? This is enough stuff to kick it off, and I will try

and
ask
you nasty questions politely phrased should you decide to accept this
mission.


You can ask me anything you want. I don't mind. Don't always expect an
answer.


roight

if we e-mail we can talk about anything we want, but i want to dedicate

this
thread to blitz chess, and not breasts - i have noticed that all religions
are against them, whereas personally i have another opinion, but i am not
going to write about those feelings here but concentrate completely on

blitz

that isn't a question either - its another gratuitous inclusion of my
personal weltansomethingorother

O - I can't quit this message without asking one more thing, about

age -
in
your opinion, does it matter so much at Blitz? Does it matter at all?


Only if your mouse hand is shaking so much that you have lots of mouse
slips
(I'm getting there).


kasparov told me the same - "its he who is better with mouse"

FYI. This is the only newsgroup to which I am currently subscribed.


Laugh - /this/ one?

--
Tom Klem

Hackers, firewalls, traps, grep, xyzzy, Don Quixote. No wonder your

little
head is spinning, especially when you use grep.


I am not grokking the grep. I only assume it means grape, as in vino.

Anyway, we have launched it - now everyone [snort] will want to have their
say. it better be good because i am serious about putting some blitz on

tv,
and more to the point, so is 'la'

so, what's blitz all about?

cordially, phil






  #5   Report Post  
Old November 2nd 05, 05:33 AM
Rob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Blitz Theory

Gentlemen,
Tom Klem wrote:
Well, now you've got me. Really boring, I am

Send me a message. I might be convinced to speak on this subject. You know
the address.


--
Tom Klem

"For as this appalling ocean surrounds the verdant land, so in the soul of
man there lies one insular Tahiti, full of peace and joy, but encompassed by
all the horrors of the half known life. God keep thee! Push not off from
that isle, thou canst never return!"
---Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Ch. 58



"Chess One" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"Tom Klem" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

No. I'm not a proponent of Blitz. I only play Blitz to pass the time,


ANd most people play chess to pass the time? Most young players I think
gravitate towards "blitz" as they lack the energy to get into deeper
games. Or perhaphs the correct statememnt would be discipline to go
deeper.


dang! another prang!

I love
chess and because I cannot sit in one place long enough to play a decent
game. I would sit here all day and play STC if I could.


get up, stand up, don't give up the fight

[for younger readers, STC is what we call an acronym, and it stands for
really boring old people's chess]


Assuming any young people are reading this? LOL

I don't care about my blitz rating. It's like eating popcorn. You just
can't
eat one, you get indigestion, you're never satisfied (that's important
when
you are trying to pass the time---or, something else),


i have the same thing with Chinese movies, you see one, then about an hour
later, you don't feel like you really saw it, and want to see another one

and you pick up a ton
of very bad habits from the analysis point of view. On the plus side,

you
do
see a lot of openings and you get to try out your favorite latest traps,
and
so on.


which was why i mentioned the book - which has more to do with how to deal
with time and position rather than great chess art and position

Also, I do keep a decent ratings deviation in Slow Time Controls on all
three servers which the STC BUNCH is represented. If I didn't, I could
hardly try to promote Slow Time Controls (stcbunch.org) on the Internet.


this is a fabulous start to my survey, you are almost as boring as taylor
kingston on the subject of sex and the soviets. maybe i should have picked
on a young tiger...?

Next and finally [I miss Clinton! He would have said 'finally of all']
Blitz
is the current topic among us tv moguls, especially rough-house OTB

games
played by colorful ruffians and assorted devious characters g I would
be
interested in chucking that topic about too. Especially any truly

devious
real-life anecdotes.


Is there a question for me in the paragraph above?


certainly not! it is a gratuitous inclusion for my own purposes. O! well,

I
see that I did make a point of asking for anecdotes of devious activities

at
blitz play - i'll let you have another go at this paragraph before thowing
up my hands... well, just throwing up.

'old' stuff snipped

"in anyone's experience at chess clubs what is the relative popularity
among
players [not organisers] of blitz to any other time control". "What is
the
relative popularity of blitz : other in on-line play?


At least in Las Vegas, when I was still able to get out, Game in 30 was
about as fast as it ever got, with one or two blitz tournaments a year
thrown in for giggles.


what i should like to do is 2 things - if you e-mail me i will proceed to
not interview you for something i just sold our editor on - interviewing
plain ol' chess players rather than GMs, as i said, not interview but pose
you a bunch of questions about your experiences in, and thoughts on chess,
which gets you to write stuff and we can shlock it all together and

publish
as an essay

the other thing will be to continue here with hopefully someone else who
actually likes to talk blitz stuff

Maybe we should define blitz as 5 mins or less?


I agree with that, and so apparently did Walter Browne and the WBCA

before
they folded.


i have the rules they came up with and which Walter blessed - for tv 'we'
are thinking cruder, and will adapt those rules to conform with the

current
paradigm of reality tv, by including substantially more sadism and public
humiliation - for example, instead of just taking away people's time for
cheating, we intend to take away chunks of their money too

Waddya thinking? This is enough stuff to kick it off, and I will try

and
ask
you nasty questions politely phrased should you decide to accept this
mission.


You can ask me anything you want. I don't mind. Don't always expect an
answer.


roight

if we e-mail we can talk about anything we want, but i want to dedicate

this
thread to blitz chess, and not breasts - i have noticed that all religions
are against them, whereas personally i have another opinion, but i am not
going to write about those feelings here but concentrate completely on

blitz

that isn't a question either - its another gratuitous inclusion of my
personal weltansomethingorother

O - I can't quit this message without asking one more thing, about

age -
in
your opinion, does it matter so much at Blitz? Does it matter at all?


Only if your mouse hand is shaking so much that you have lots of mouse
slips
(I'm getting there).


kasparov told me the same - "its he who is better with mouse"

FYI. This is the only newsgroup to which I am currently subscribed.


Laugh - /this/ one?

--
Tom Klem

Hackers, firewalls, traps, grep, xyzzy, Don Quixote. No wonder your

little
head is spinning, especially when you use grep.


I am not grokking the grep. I only assume it means grape, as in vino.

Anyway, we have launched it - now everyone [snort] will want to have their
say. it better be good because i am serious about putting some blitz on

tv,
and more to the point, so is 'la'

so, what's blitz all about?

cordially, phil



TV is a medium of quick images and fast visuals. Fast chess has the
same allure. It's almost the "Readers Digest" version of fine
literature, it may not be a masterpiece, but a heck of a lot more
people would enjoy it.

Rob





  #6   Report Post  
Old November 2nd 05, 12:46 PM
Chess One
 
Posts: n/a
Default Blitz Theory


ANd most people play chess to pass the time? Most young players I think
gravitate towards "blitz" as they lack the energy to get into deeper
games. Or perhaphs the correct statememnt would be discipline to go
deeper.


kids these days, not like we were

--------
[for younger readers, STC is what we call an acronym, and it stands for
really boring old people's chess]


Assuming any young people are reading this? LOL


'never trust anyone under 30'

so, what's blitz all about?

cordially, phil



TV is a medium of quick images and fast visuals. Fast chess has the
same allure. It's almost the "Readers Digest" version of fine
literature,


aargh! don't tell Mr. M that! ha ha ha "Readers Digest" !!!! i hope you ARE
kidding? have you ever seen the people who read Readers Digest, every
single one of them is in a doctor's waiting room

maybe its more like The Hustler version of airport novels?

it may not be a masterpiece, but a heck of a lot more
people would enjoy it.


who wants a classic fine wine while watching tv anyway? its more like... a
mexican beer with lime in it

Riba! El Phil

Rob





  #7   Report Post  
Old November 2nd 05, 08:08 PM
Rob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Blitz Theory


Chess One wrote:
ANd most people play chess to pass the time? Most young players I think
gravitate towards "blitz" as they lack the energy to get into deeper
games. Or perhaphs the correct statememnt would be discipline to go
deeper.


kids these days, not like we were


This is true. We used to have to stay inside to be punished. Now
punishment is being made to go outside!
--------
[for younger readers, STC is what we call an acronym, and it stands for
really boring old people's chess]


Assuming any young people are reading this? LOL


'never trust anyone under 30'

so, what's blitz all about?

cordially, phil



TV is a medium of quick images and fast visuals. Fast chess has the
same allure. It's almost the "Readers Digest" version of fine
literature,


aargh! don't tell Mr. M that! ha ha ha "Readers Digest" !!!! i hope you ARE
kidding? have you ever seen the people who read Readers Digest, every
single one of them is in a doctor's waiting room



Actually is nice reading while "in the loo". :-)

maybe its more like The Hustler version of airport novels?

it may not be a masterpiece, but a heck of a lot more
people would enjoy it.


who wants a classic fine wine while watching tv anyway? its more like... a
mexican beer with lime in it



True. Most alcol is taken for "effect" anyway.. and perhaps fast chess
is the same?
Riba! El Phil

Rob



Hiccup! Rob



  #8   Report Post  
Old November 2nd 05, 10:15 PM
Chess One
 
Posts: n/a
Default Blitz Theory


kids these days, not like we were


This is true. We used to have to stay inside to be punished. Now
punishment is being made to go outside!


we're going to cut off your dsl Johnny!

----------

aargh! don't tell Mr. M that! ha ha ha "Readers Digest" !!!! i hope you
ARE
kidding? have you ever seen the people who read Readers Digest, every
single one of them is in a doctor's waiting room



Actually is nice reading while "in the loo". :-)


I can't believe you are younger than me! Come on, admit it, do you actually
subscribe!!?

-------

who wants a classic fine wine while watching tv anyway? its more like...
a
mexican beer with lime in it



True. Most alcol is taken for "effect" anyway.. and perhaps fast chess
is the same?


what do "effect" players think? is blitz a rush or no?

Hiccup! Rob


don't eat that digest! make the guy some more tea. what will he ingest in la
do your think? mango tea? i'm glad he doesn't read here ROFL!!

phil


  #9   Report Post  
Old November 2nd 05, 10:28 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Blitz Theory

"Chess One" writes:


what do "effect" players think? is blitz a rush or no?


I played in a g/15 event last August. It felt like taking
in about ten cups of coffee, but only the good effects,
not the bad.


--
William Hyde
EOS Department
Duke University
  #10   Report Post  
Old November 2nd 05, 10:47 PM
Chess One
 
Posts: n/a
Default Blitz Theory


wrote in message
...
"Chess One" writes:


what do "effect" players think? is blitz a rush or no?


I played in a g/15 event last August. It felt like taking
in about ten cups of coffee, but only the good effects,
not the bad.


i can't do it either - anything less than game/10 causes 'time outs'

last game of blitz i played was without a clock, without a board too

a russian friend and i went outside studio during some filming and he
presented me a chess set - a russian 'grandmaster' design which 6 world
champions had actually played with - bored with talking so much [grin] we
decided to play a game on a park bench - it was wire mesh bench, and on the
honour system we resolved to 'play fast' a move about every 5 seconds - we
arrayed the pieces on the bench and just played a game really fast - he is
good, about 2350, but i was white and soon swindled him into winning the
exchange, but just as soon won it back again, and suggested a draw instead
of a 50 move endgame Queen and rook and 7 pawns each with less and less
pieces to figure out 'where the board was'

it wasn't really blitz since there was no clock, but the whole thing took 6
mins total, and we achieved a diplomatic result between old friends

cordially, phil


--
William Hyde
EOS Department
Duke University



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