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Old December 28th 05, 11:52 AM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,rec
Chess One
 
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Default Topalov accused of Cheating to Win World Chess Championship


"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message
oups.com...

Chess One wrote:
I refer my Vermont colleague to an answer made moments ago [to. St.
Louis.].
To wit, ask Sam Sloan. Phil


Jeez, Phil, you gave the impression that you had read Lawrence's
reply yourself on some other newsgroup.


O good. That was the impression I intended to convey.

It seems you should surely be
able to tell me where it was that Lawrence replied.


And I surely could tell. But if the matter rests on what content should be
included in Wikipedia, then why not write directly to Sam Sloan, who was the
original author of the piece?

Phil

ps: I cut some newsgroups from this list, since alt.soc.bulgarian readers
might be puzzled by this correspondence


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Old December 28th 05, 01:50 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc
Taylor Kingston
 
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Default Topalov accused of Cheating to Win World Chess Championship

Chess One wrote:
Jeez, Phil, you gave the impression that you had read Lawrence's
reply yourself on some other newsgroup.


O good. That was the impression I intended to convey.

It seems you should surely be
able to tell me where it was that Lawrence replied.


And I surely could tell. But if the matter rests on what content should be
included in Wikipedia, then why not write directly to Sam Sloan, who was the
original author of the piece?


Because I am directing a question to Phil Innes, about a claim that
Innes made. This is a very common procedure. Mr. A says "I heard X."
Mr. B replies, "Oh, where did you hear that?", and then Mr. A tells
him. Your reluctance makes me wonder if your claim actually is true.

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Old December 28th 05, 02:12 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc
Chess One
 
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Default Topalov accused of Cheating to Win World Chess Championship


"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message
ups.com...
Chess One wrote:
Jeez, Phil, you gave the impression that you had read Lawrence's
reply yourself on some other newsgroup.


O good. That was the impression I intended to convey.

It seems you should surely be
able to tell me where it was that Lawrence replied.


And I surely could tell. But if the matter rests on what content should
be
included in Wikipedia, then why not write directly to Sam Sloan, who was
the
original author of the piece?


Because I am directing a question to Phil Innes, about a claim that
Innes made. This is a very common procedure. Mr. A says "I heard X."
Mr. B replies, "Oh, where did you hear that?", and then Mr. A tells
him. Your reluctance makes me wonder if your claim actually is true.


Fine. Wonder away as is your wont.

Phil


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Old December 28th 05, 02:28 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc
Taylor Kingston
 
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Default Topalov accused of Cheating to Win World Chess Championship


Chess One wrote:
"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message
ups.com...
Chess One wrote:
Jeez, Phil, you gave the impression that you had read Lawrence's
reply yourself on some other newsgroup.

O good. That was the impression I intended to convey.

It seems you should surely be
able to tell me where it was that Lawrence replied.

And I surely could tell. But if the matter rests on what content should
be
included in Wikipedia, then why not write directly to Sam Sloan, who was
the
original author of the piece?


Because I am directing a question to Phil Innes, about a claim that
Innes made. This is a very common procedure. Mr. A says "I heard X."
Mr. B replies, "Oh, where did you hear that?", and then Mr. A tells
him. Your reluctance makes me wonder if your claim actually is true.


Fine. Wonder away as is your wont.


So then, Lawrence did not actually reply to Sloan in some other
newsgroup? And you lied when he said he did? That is the distinct
impression you give here, Phil.
This is not a matter affecting national security. If Lawrence did
post something elsewhere, it will do no harm for you to tell us where.
I guarantee that the NSA will not send men in black to your door.

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Old December 28th 05, 02:49 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc
Chess One
 
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Default Topalov accused of Cheating to Win World Chess Championship


"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message
oups.com...

Because I am directing a question to Phil Innes, about a claim that
Innes made. This is a very common procedure. Mr. A says "I heard X."
Mr. B replies, "Oh, where did you hear that?", and then Mr. A tells
him. Your reluctance makes me wonder if your claim actually is true.


Fine. Wonder away as is your wont.


So then, Lawrence did not actually reply to Sloan in some other
newsgroup? And you lied when he said he did? That is the distinct
impression you give here, Phil.


Dear Taylor - you have been nuts about certain people for some time. That is
your business. I do not lie in what I wrote. If you want to correct the
record then you should behave as if you intend to by addressing Sam Sloan,
but it is evident that you only want to deprecate his efforts

You commit these calumnies concerning Sam Sloan, and now myself - with no
evidence whatever, and call us liars.Your manner is insincere, destructive
and offensive.

This is not a matter affecting national security. If Lawrence did
post something elsewhere, it will do no harm for you to tell us where.
I guarantee that the NSA will not send men in black to your door.


It obviously has massive importance to you despite your joking about
national security wink - and I see you continue to blague the issue,
calling people liars, and under-researched, despite your own belated
admission that you too were under-researched when it came to reporting the
plight of refuseniks - despite repeating a Soviet agent without a blush,
while knowing he might not tell the truth.

You and brennan have your standards, I have mine! For other people actually
interested in these bio-histories here is what Frank wrote directly to Sam:-

//Phil Innes
------------

Dear Sam: Thanks for writing a biography of me for Wikipedia. Following
are some minor corrections and elaborations:

I was born in Brooklyn, N.Y. on March 15, 1934. The correct title of my
department at St. John's University is: Mass Communications, Journalism,
Television and Film. As Chairman, I have 60 faculty and over 900 students.
Additionally, I have taught journalism at Barnard College of Columbia
University for 25 years. The books about Samuel Johnson and Boswell were
written by another Frank Brady (now deceased). I have served as Arbiter of
two international tournaments fairly recently (2001 and 2004, both in New
York). I have been elected to, and serve as an active voting member of the
British Academy of Film and Television Arts, and PEN, the international
writers' organization.

Thanks for your interest.

Dr. Frank Brady




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Old December 28th 05, 03:08 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc
Taylor Kingston
 
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Default Topalov accused of Cheating to Win World Chess Championship


Chess One wrote:
You and brennan have your standards, I have mine! For other people actually
interested in these bio-histories here is what Frank wrote directly to Sam:-
//Phil Innes


Um, Phil -- are you actually paying attention here? We are not
discussing Frank Brady. As I have made quite clear, my question
concerns Al Lawrence. I quote your earlier claims about Lawrence,
posted here this week:

"Taylor makes more objections than Al does himself "
"Al responded on a moderated newsgroup directly to Sam"

Can you please verify these claims? You need merely supply the
address of the newsgroup where you say Lawrence posted his response.


Dear Sam: Thanks for writing a biography of me for Wikipedia. Following
are some minor corrections and elaborations:

I was born in Brooklyn, N.Y. on March 15, 1934. The correct title of my
department at St. John's University is: Mass Communications, Journalism,
Television and Film. As Chairman, I have 60 faculty and over 900 students.
Additionally, I have taught journalism at Barnard College of Columbia
University for 25 years. The books about Samuel Johnson and Boswell were
written by another Frank Brady (now deceased). I have served as Arbiter of
two international tournaments fairly recently (2001 and 2004, both in New
York). I have been elected to, and serve as an active voting member of the
British Academy of Film and Television Arts, and PEN, the international
writers' organization.

Thanks for your interest.

Dr. Frank Brady


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Old December 28th 05, 03:09 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc
Sam Sloan
 
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Default Topalov accused of Cheating to Win World Chess Championship

Innes and Kingston have been accused of being cozy with each other.

Sam Sloan

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Old December 28th 05, 03:50 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc
Sam Sloan
 
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Default Topalov accused of Cheating to Win World Chess Championship

On 28 Dec 2005 07:08:25 -0800, "Taylor Kingston"
wrote:


Chess One wrote:
You and brennan have your standards, I have mine! For other people actually
interested in these bio-histories here is what Frank wrote directly to Sam:-
//Phil Innes


Um, Phil -- are you actually paying attention here? We are not
discussing Frank Brady. As I have made quite clear, my question
concerns Al Lawrence. I quote your earlier claims about Lawrence,
posted here this week:

"Taylor makes more objections than Al does himself "
"Al responded on a moderated newsgroup directly to Sam"

Can you please verify these claims? You need merely supply the
address of the newsgroup where you say Lawrence posted his response.


Phil made a mistake. He meant to write that Frank responded directly
to me in the email group. Instead, he wrote that Al responded to me
directly in an email group.

Frank Brady did in fact respond directly to me in the group. He
provided several corrections and I incorporated them all in my
Wikipedia biography of him, just as I would do for anybody who informs
me of corrections which need to be made in a biography I write about
that person.

It is a firm rule of Wikipedia that, unless you are the owner of
Wikipedia, you are not allowed to make corrections in your own
biography.

So, Phil made a simple mistake, which we all do from time to time.
This is in marked contrast to Taylor Kingston, who often outright lies
on these groups.

Sam Sloan
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Old December 28th 05, 04:11 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc
Chess One
 
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Default Topalov accused of Cheating to Win World Chess Championship

I really wanted to point out that Frank made his corrective statement to
you, Sam Sloan, and you would include the correction as an update to the
entry, as an example of trying to be honest. That has been the general
contention here - to fairly represent a subject. Some people are content to
simply destroy the initial message, rather than adapt it.

What I didn't like is the assumption that this willingness to be corrected
is not the case - and all the consequent nonsense that goes with that point
of view. If people are really interested in changing the entries, they
should write to the author of them, instead of regretting every other
opinion than their own.

Especially when the people asking for corrections themselves write non-stop
**** about other people, under their own names, or by sporting around with
others of such obvious bad will.

My opinion of the Wikipedia material is mixed overall. I think it often
misses the central drama of people's fame [see my note to Tom Dorsch], but
as general and relatively anodyne comment the information seems reasonable.

Phil Innes


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Old December 28th 05, 05:31 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc
Taylor Kingston
 
Posts: n/a
Default Innes on Sloan (was: Topalov accused of Cheating to Win World Chess Championship)


Chess One wrote:
I really wanted to point out that Frank made his corrective statement to
you, Sam Sloan ...


Which you did by repeatedly claiming the statement came from Al
Lawrence.

and you would include the correction as an update to the
entry, as an example of trying to be honest. That has been the general
contention here - to fairly represent a subject.


Indeed it is. As an example of Sloan's fairness, honesty and factual
correctness, I would submit his repeated allegations of a USCF Sales
"blacklist" and his claim that "Taylor Kingston is involved with USCF
Sales and is the perpetrator of the blacklist."
As I have repeatedly pointed out to Sam:

A) To my knowledge, no such blacklist exists,
B) If it does, I have had no part in creating it, and
C) I have had no involvment ever with USCF Sales, except for buying
the occasional book.

What I didn't like is the assumption that this willingness to be corrected
is not the case ...


So then, when may we expect Sam to justify your faith, and correct
and/or retract any or all of his false statements above? When may we
expect him to improve his seriously under-researched (a favorite term
of yours, Phil) "article" on Hanon Russell, say, by actually contacting
Russell himself?

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