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Old May 15th 07, 04:28 AM posted to soc.history.war.us-revolution,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.british,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
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Default The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson

Update on Jefferson-Hemings DNA Testing

When the first edition of this book was published in 1992, DNA testing
was little more than a theoretical possibility. However, it happened
by coincidence that just a few days after my book was reprinted in
1998 the first DNA tests concerning the Jefferson-Hemings controversy
were completed and the results published: Eugene A. Foster et al.,
"Jefferson Fathered Slave's Last Child," Nature, November 5, 1998. The
results showed that Thomas Jefferson could not be excluded as the
father of the children of Sally Hemings.

Now the tests have been revised and updated in 2007 to reflect the
great advances in DNA testing that have taken place in the last nine
years. Accordingly, I am updating and revising my book to reflect the
latest advances in DNA testing.

DNA tests never by their nature prove who the father is. They simply
exclude or do not exclude a man as the father. However, with modern
testing, the result will typically be that the man is either NOT the
father, or else that he is 99.99% certain to be the father.

On the Maury Povich show on TV, Povich will boom out, "You are the
Father", when, in reality, the result of the test shows merely that
the man is 99.99% certain to be the father.

As soon as the article came out in Nature magazine, it was attacked so
vehemently that the authors of the article essentially went
underground. Still, to this day, the authors do not respond to
inquiries about it.

The attacks were led by Herbert Barger. At first I considered Herbert
Barger to be a bad guy. However, I have come to appreciate Mr. Berger,
especially after realizing that it was because of Herbert Barger that
the DNA testing had taken place in the first instance. Indeed, Mr.
Barger is continuing to search for more relatives of either Thomas
Jefferson or Sally Hemings to test. He is a seeker of the truth.

Mr. Barger had contacted a bunch of known direct male descendants of
Field Jefferson, the uncle of Thomas Jefferson, and descendants of
Dabney Carr, the brother-in-law of Thomas Jefferson. Judith P. Justus
had supplied the only known direct male descendant of Sally Hemings.
Minnie Shumate Woodson had supplied a number of direct descendants of
Thomas Woodson, whom she believed to be the son of Thomas Jefferson.
However, Minnie died before the testing took place. It is good that
she did, because the results would have killed her.

Herbert Barger believed that these tests would prove that Thomas
Jefferson was not the father of the children of Sally Hemings and that
one of the Carr Brothers was the real father. Minnie Shumate Woodson
believed that the tests would prove that Thomas Woodson was the slave
named "Tom" whom James Thomson Callendar had reported bore a "sable
likeness" to President Thomas Jefferson. The descendants of the Carr
Brothers had no real motive or point they were trying to prove. They
just agreed and went along with the tests. They probably would not
have been upset regardless of how the results turned out. After all:
Is it such a big deal to know or not to know whether oneís
great-great-great-grandfather did or did not sleep with a black woman?

The tests results turned out to be considerably different from what
anyone but me had expected. The tests established that Thomas Woodson
was not the son of Thomas Jefferson. This eliminated the more than one
thousand direct descendants of Thomas Woodson from being descendants
of Thomas Jefferson.

The test results eliminated the children of Dabney Carr from being the
father of at least one son of Sally Hemings.

However, the test results could not exclude Thomas Jefferson from
being the father of at least one of the sons of Sally Hemings.

It is important to understand that there are now three recognized
types of DNA testing that are considered useful for genealogical
purposes. These are Y-Chromosome Testing, MtDna Testing and Autosomal
Testing. Of these three, only Y-chromosome testing is considered
useful with regard to the Jefferson-Hemings Controversy.

The reason for this is that the Y-chromosome is carried from father to
son. Women do not have a Y-chromosome. Thus, only men can be tested.
The Y-chromosome test can reveal who the fathers fatherís fatherís
father was up the straight male line. It will not tell us anything
about the mothers involved.

The MtDNA, or mitochondrial DNA, testing tests only the outer area or
the bag that carries the genetic material. It is passed by the mother
to all of her children. The reason this is not very useful for genetic
purposes is that MtDNA mutates slowly. If two women are an exact match
for MtDNA, this might tell us that two women share the same mother two
thousand years ago, but since all of us are related if you go back far
enough, this often does not tell us anything we did not know already.
It was through a MtDNA test that it was recently reported that all
Ashkenazi Jews are descended from one of four women. However, there is
no indication of how long ago these women lived or where they lived.
They might easily have lived three thousand years ago, which was
before the group now known as Ashkenazi Jews was even formed. Oprah
Winfrey claimed that an MtDNA test proved that she was a Zulu.
However, the Zulu tribe was not even formed until after most slaves
were imported from West Africa to the United States.

Autosomal DNA testing tests the genetic nucleus. All of us are a
mixture of genetic material, half from the mother, half from the
father. Autosomal DNA testing is useful for paternity tests because,
if the mother and child are tested and it can be shown that a line of
DNA code definitely did not come from the mother, then it must have
come from the father. So, by testing the mother, the child and all the
candidate men, it can be determined which of the many possible men was
the real father. This came up in the famous Anna Nicole Smith case,
where dozens of men claimed to be the father of her child in order to
gain control of a substantial inheritance.

However, Autosomal DNA testing will only tell us who the father was.
It will not tell us who the fatherís father was. For that, you would
need a test of the fatherís mother too and so on each generation back
up the line. This will usually prove impossible.

Since the grave of Sally Hemings has never been found, that
possibility, already remote, is eliminated.

Thus, only Y-chromosome testing is useful for genetic purposes. It
must be emphasized however that this is rapidly evolving science. No
doubt new tests will be developed and better answers to these
questions will be found.

I will use myself an example of how Y-chromosome testing can be
useful, especially since I am unlikely to sue myself and some people
are upset when the results of their DNA tests come back. For example,
blacks are often upset when they find out that their direct male line
ancestor was a white man, as is the case of 25% to 30% of African
Americans. One of the Woodson descendants is still upset when the
results came back showing that he was NOT the descendant of Thomas
Jefferson, and he has written a book claiming that the test results
were wrong.

In my own case, I knew almost nothing about my own genealogy until I
started to research it at the same time that I started writing this
book. I only knew the names of three of my grandparents. I knew that
the name of my grandfather was Howard Creighton Sloan only because of
an old stock certificate that had been sitting on top of the
refrigerator at home for 40 years with his name on it.

Eventually, I found out that his father had been Creighton Sloan
(1842-1916). Beyond that was a brick wall, because there is no record
of who the father of Creighton Sloan was or where Creighton Sloan was
born. Some sources say that he was born in Philadelphia, but his death
certificate says that he was "born at sea, Irish".

I was contacted by someone named Susan Sloan, who stated that she was
forming a Sloan Family Surname project. She asked me to join the
project and agree to be tested. I joined. The results are online at:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...xed_columns=on

I am number 13599. Here are the results of my 37-allele marker test.

13599 Sloan R1b1
13231410111512121213132918910111125151930131315171 11019231615181838391212

What this means is that I am a member of the R1b1 haplogroup. This is
the most common group for Ireland and England. It is also an old
group. Perhaps the first migrants to England after the decline of the
Ice Age 11,000 years ago were members of this group. There is a major
debate that is still going on. The Ice Age lasted in Europe from about
30,000 years ago to about 11,000 years ago. It is assumed that during
this period humans could not survive in Europe except in the
Southern-most parts such as the bottom of Spain. During the Ice Age,
the sea levels were far lower, because so much of the water was ice.
England and Ireland were connected to Continental Europe by a land
bridge. It is believed that during the last stages of the Ice Age,
humans crossed from Continental Europe to England and Ireland, before
the land bridge was submerged. These early migrants were likely
members of the R1b1 haplogroup.

Humans lived in Europe before the Ice Age. These were the Neanderthal
Men. They died out, perhaps because of the Ice Age or perhaps because
they were killed off by the first modern men who arrived there at that
time.

However, it is possible that this is all wrong. Perhaps modern men did
live as far north as England and Ireland before or even during the Ice
Age. Research is being done of this subject.

There was a recent published report on hair color. Everywhere in the
world, the color of hair is black, except in Northern Europe, where
hair exists in a wide variety of colors, including blond, red, light
brown and many other shades in between. Why is that? The theory is
that during the Ice Age, women could not survive alone. There were no
crops to harvest. No berries, fruits or nuts. The food was animals,
which they needed to catch. For this, they needed men. A woman with
beautiful, blond hair would attract a man from a long distance. He
would bring her the game he had caught to eat. He would bring her
food, and she would give him sex. Thus, her genes would be passed on
to the next generation.

Meanwhile, a nearby black-haired woman might not attract attention and
interest of men and therefore she might die of starvation. Anyway,
that is the theory. The basis of this theory is that the wide
varieties of hair color are known to have developed in just the last
10,000 years in Northern Europe. The wide varieties of hair color
could not have developed that quickly through the normal
differentiation of the species, so there must have been other factors
at work.

There is something slightly unusual in my own DNA profile. That is the
second digit, 23, which represents the 390 allele. Almost all other
Sloans in my group have 24 at that marker. In addition, most other
Sloans differ from me on the 6th marker as well. I have 15. Most
others have 14. This is for 385b.

However, there is one other Sloan who has almost exactly the same
generic profile as me. I did research and found that his name is
Ronald Scott Sloan. He is number 39388. He is presently number 18 on
the list. He died recently.

I researched his genealogy and found that he is a descendant of
William Sloan, who was born in 1780 in Philadelphia. William Sloan was
married twice and had ten children, eight sons and two daughters. The
most famous of his sons was Samuel Sloan (1815-1884), known as "The
Architect of Philadelphia" and author of the book "The Model
Architect", which I am reprinting. I have long suspected that I am a
relative of that Samuel Sloan, because he had a son named Howard Sloan
and my name is Samuel Howard Sloan and he had a brother named Wesley
Sloan and my brother is named Creighton Wesley Sloan.

What we have is a similarity of names, the fact that all of these
people lived in Philadelphia and a near-perfect DNA match. This leads
me to the conclusion that one of the seven other sons of the William
Sloan who was born in Philadelphia in 1780 could be my great-great
grandfather. However, this is not proof.

It is entirely possible that the common ancestor between myself and
Ronald Scott Sloan lived several generations before that. What is
considered to be practically proven is that Ronald Scott Sloan and
myself share a common ancestor. We just do not know who that common
ancestor was.

It is believed that if two men with the same surname are a perfect DNA
match, then they have a common ancestor within probably seven
generations. However, note that Ronald Scott Sloan and myself are a
close match, but not a perfect match.

A new Sloan has joined the group. He is number 85539. He is a perfect
match with me except on allele 385b. His name is Donald K. Sloan and
he writes, "I can tell you that my grandfather, Mathew immigrated from
Ireland. I know nothing before him."

My DNA results are not that useful because I have the most common gene
type for European men, which is R1b1c. There are millions of men who
match me perfectly or nearly perfectly. Family Tree DNA has provided
me with a list of 67 men who match me perfectly on the 12 allele
marker test.

http://www.familytreedna.com/trs_ftM...599&code=H3135

Thomas Jefferson is an entirely different matter, because NOBODY
MATCHES WITH HIM, other than his immediate family.

The initial 1998 report in Nature magazine described Thomas
Jeffersonís DNA type as "rare". This was a considerable
understatement. His DNA type was not merely rare. It was unique.

Thomas Jefferson was assigned his own new Haplogroup, which is K2. I
know what you are thinking. You are thinking about something between
Space Invaders and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. However, Thomas
Jefferson does not seem to have been a space invader. He was
definitely something different, however.

You have seen how in my own case, there are 67 men out of those tested
who match me perfectly on the 12 allele test. Almost all of these men
are from England or Northern Ireland.

However, in the case of Thomas Jefferson, no man has yet been found
who matches him on more than 6 alleles of a short 8 allele test. Few
even match him on more than five.

Thus, the improbable possibility that he was a space invader does seem
to loom a bit larger. However, he was probably not a space invader. He
was just a mutant.

Thomas Jefferson had red hair. As has just been explained, the current
theory is that red and blond hair developed in Northern Europe to make
women more beautiful and to attract more men. Every woman wants to
attract more men, whether they are willing to admit it or not. That is
a genetically driven, survival instinct. However, it is not really
relevant here because Thomas Jeffersonís membership in the K2
Haplogroup merely shows that his fatherís fatherís fatherís father was
K2. The red hair, on the other hand, comes from a combination of all
his ancestors.

Sam Sloan

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1881373029/



At 10:31 PM 10/14/2001 -0700, Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr. wrote:
You forgot that he denied the affair; and thus
your premise begins with the fact, that on this
most critical matter, Thomas Jefferson must
be proven to be a liar.


Thomas Jefferson never denied the affair, and that is exactly the
point. The article you cited in a previous posting was just a rehash
of a thoroughly discredited book by Virginius Dabney written years
ago.

For example, the Dabney book and the website you cited stated that
Jefferson denied the affair in a letter to his Secretary of the Navy
which has not survived.

You have to know that Thomas Jefferson kept copies of all of his
letters. He had a copy machine which made a copy of every letter he
wrote. His letters have all been preserved. Many are held by the
Massachusetts Historical Society. Princeton University is working on a
40-year project to publish all of his letters.

To say that among all the thousands of letters which Thomas Jefferson
wrote, there is one letter in which he denied the Sally affair, but
that one letter has been lost, is patently ridiculous.

Then, the article you cite contains a quote from Thomas Jefferson in
which he said that the only offense he had ever committed was that he
once loved a handsome lady. That letter had nothing to do with Sally
Hemings. That letter concerned an adulterous affair Thomas Jefferson
had conducted with his best friend's wife, Elizabeth Walker, the wife
of General Walker. Before Monticello was built, General Walker was a
next door neighbor of Thomas Jefferson. When General Walker went off
to fight in one of the Indian Wars, Thomas Jefferson allegedly started
sleeping with his wife. Years later, General Walker found out about
this and challenged Thomas Jefferson to a duel. Jefferson declined.
His statement even more years after that that he once loved a handsome
lady was in response to a question about the Walker affair.

My book, "The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson" spends 50 pages
dealing with these and several other allegations. You obviously have
not read my book, because otherwise you would not be making the stupid
statements you keep making.

Sam Sloan

The DNA used was
not from Thomas Jefferson, but from the posterity
of his father's brother: Field Jefferson. Of the
Jefferson men, there were 25 within 20 miles of
Monticello.


Can you name those 25 Jefferson men? You cannot. You have just copied
this statement from something Harold Barger wrote. His wife is a white
descendant of Thomas Jefferson.


I reasonably conclude that the said
Thomas Jefferson was not a liar and
request that you no longer continue this
off topic issue, as it appears to me that
your intended medieval databases are just
a guise for publicity, to sell a book or books;
something not looked upon with favor.


I understand that this debate was going on for long before I joined
this group. You keep saying that Jefferson was not a liar. I agree.
Jefferson never denied that he was sleeping with Sally for 37 years.
He just remained silent. In the article you cite, it says that when
shown a newspaper article which stated that Jefferson was sleeping
with Sally, Jefferson gave it a hearty laugh. That was not a denial.

The article also mentions poems about the Sally affair which were
published in the newspapers while Jefferson was president. Here is one
of them. It was written by Joseph Dennie and published in the Boston
Gazette in 1802:

Of all the Damsels on the Green
On Mountain or in Valley
A lass so luscious never was seen
As Monticellan Sally

Yankee Doodle, whose the nooodle?
What wife were half so handy?
To breed a flock of slaves to stock
A blackamoors the dandy.



------------------------------------------------
Sam Sloan wrote:

In order to prove or even allege that someone other than Thomas Jefferson
was the father of Sally's five children, it would be necessary to show that
someone other than Thomas Jefferson had contact with Sally during the
thirteen year period when she was producing children.

Sally had five children: Harriet, born 1795, Beverley born 1798, Harriet II
born 22 May 1801, Madison born 19 Jan 1805 and Eston born 21 May 1808.

Although guests came and went at Monticello, nobody visited there
frequently enough or stayed there long enough to produce these children.

Please note that Sally never had a child named Tom and there was no slave
named Tom at Monticello, except for Tom Schackleford, an elderly wagon driver.

But that is only the beginning: Combine that with the fact that Thomas
Jefferson gave all five of Sally's children their freedom, except for
Harriet I who died at age two, plus the fact that Sally and her two
remaining sons were names as beneficiaries in the will of Thomas Jefferson,
plus the fact that all of the other slaves of Thomas Jefferson were sold at
auction after he died, plus the many other facts surrounding this situation
too numerous to mention here, no reasonable person could conclude that
anyone other than Thomas Jefferson was likely to be the father of Sally's
five children.

By the way, I am not by any means saying this "to stigmatize Thomas
Jefferson". I have eight children. He had five by Sally and six by his
regular wife, who was Sally's half-sister.

Sam Sloan
http://www.samsloan.com/slaves.htm


At 03:19 PM 10/14/2001 -0700, Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr. wrote:

There is overwhelming evidence that a member
of the Jefferson clan was involved. There is also
overwhelming evidence of a great desire on
the part of many, to stigmatize Thomas Jefferson
with the failings of a consorting Jefferson relative,
irrespective of the factual evidence proving otherwise.
------------------------------------------------------

Sam Sloan wrote:

At 08:51 PM 10/13/2001 +0100, D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Was it _Nature_ that supported the campaign that "Thomas Jefferson was a
great man, but fooled around too ---- and even had an affair with one of
his slaves, producing offspring ---- and here's the DNA evidence to
prove it." ?

Did the editor, who was allegedly not consulted properly, resign over
the allegedly sordid affair?

Or was that some other supposedly prestigious scientific journal?

The evidence is overwhelming that Thomas Jefferson did father at least five
children by his slaves. It was overwhelming even before the DNA evidence
came out.

What is your point?

Sam Sloan
http://www.samsloan.com/slaves.htm


  #2   Report Post  
Old May 15th 07, 05:14 PM posted to soc.history.war.us-revolution,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.british,rec.games.chess.politics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2007
Posts: 10
Default The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson

Where do I send my donation for 40 ounce malt liquor too?


"Sam Sloan" wrote in message
...
Update on Jefferson-Hemings DNA Testing

When the first edition of this book was published in 1992, DNA testing
was little more than a theoretical possibility. However, it happened
by coincidence that just a few days after my book was reprinted in
1998 the first DNA tests concerning the Jefferson-Hemings controversy
were completed and the results published: Eugene A. Foster et al.,
"Jefferson Fathered Slave's Last Child," Nature, November 5, 1998. The
results showed that Thomas Jefferson could not be excluded as the
father of the children of Sally Hemings.

Now the tests have been revised and updated in 2007 to reflect the
great advances in DNA testing that have taken place in the last nine
years. Accordingly, I am updating and revising my book to reflect the
latest advances in DNA testing.

DNA tests never by their nature prove who the father is. They simply
exclude or do not exclude a man as the father. However, with modern
testing, the result will typically be that the man is either NOT the
father, or else that he is 99.99% certain to be the father.

On the Maury Povich show on TV, Povich will boom out, "You are the
Father", when, in reality, the result of the test shows merely that
the man is 99.99% certain to be the father.

As soon as the article came out in Nature magazine, it was attacked so
vehemently that the authors of the article essentially went
underground. Still, to this day, the authors do not respond to
inquiries about it.

The attacks were led by Herbert Barger. At first I considered Herbert
Barger to be a bad guy. However, I have come to appreciate Mr. Berger,
especially after realizing that it was because of Herbert Barger that
the DNA testing had taken place in the first instance. Indeed, Mr.
Barger is continuing to search for more relatives of either Thomas
Jefferson or Sally Hemings to test. He is a seeker of the truth.

Mr. Barger had contacted a bunch of known direct male descendants of
Field Jefferson, the uncle of Thomas Jefferson, and descendants of
Dabney Carr, the brother-in-law of Thomas Jefferson. Judith P. Justus
had supplied the only known direct male descendant of Sally Hemings.
Minnie Shumate Woodson had supplied a number of direct descendants of
Thomas Woodson, whom she believed to be the son of Thomas Jefferson.
However, Minnie died before the testing took place. It is good that
she did, because the results would have killed her.

Herbert Barger believed that these tests would prove that Thomas
Jefferson was not the father of the children of Sally Hemings and that
one of the Carr Brothers was the real father. Minnie Shumate Woodson
believed that the tests would prove that Thomas Woodson was the slave
named "Tom" whom James Thomson Callendar had reported bore a "sable
likeness" to President Thomas Jefferson. The descendants of the Carr
Brothers had no real motive or point they were trying to prove. They
just agreed and went along with the tests. They probably would not
have been upset regardless of how the results turned out. After all:
Is it such a big deal to know or not to know whether one's
great-great-great-grandfather did or did not sleep with a black woman?

The tests results turned out to be considerably different from what
anyone but me had expected. The tests established that Thomas Woodson
was not the son of Thomas Jefferson. This eliminated the more than one
thousand direct descendants of Thomas Woodson from being descendants
of Thomas Jefferson.

The test results eliminated the children of Dabney Carr from being the
father of at least one son of Sally Hemings.

However, the test results could not exclude Thomas Jefferson from
being the father of at least one of the sons of Sally Hemings.

It is important to understand that there are now three recognized
types of DNA testing that are considered useful for genealogical
purposes. These are Y-Chromosome Testing, MtDna Testing and Autosomal
Testing. Of these three, only Y-chromosome testing is considered
useful with regard to the Jefferson-Hemings Controversy.

The reason for this is that the Y-chromosome is carried from father to
son. Women do not have a Y-chromosome. Thus, only men can be tested.
The Y-chromosome test can reveal who the fathers father's father's
father was up the straight male line. It will not tell us anything
about the mothers involved.

The MtDNA, or mitochondrial DNA, testing tests only the outer area or
the bag that carries the genetic material. It is passed by the mother
to all of her children. The reason this is not very useful for genetic
purposes is that MtDNA mutates slowly. If two women are an exact match
for MtDNA, this might tell us that two women share the same mother two
thousand years ago, but since all of us are related if you go back far
enough, this often does not tell us anything we did not know already.
It was through a MtDNA test that it was recently reported that all
Ashkenazi Jews are descended from one of four women. However, there is
no indication of how long ago these women lived or where they lived.
They might easily have lived three thousand years ago, which was
before the group now known as Ashkenazi Jews was even formed. Oprah
Winfrey claimed that an MtDNA test proved that she was a Zulu.
However, the Zulu tribe was not even formed until after most slaves
were imported from West Africa to the United States.

Autosomal DNA testing tests the genetic nucleus. All of us are a
mixture of genetic material, half from the mother, half from the
father. Autosomal DNA testing is useful for paternity tests because,
if the mother and child are tested and it can be shown that a line of
DNA code definitely did not come from the mother, then it must have
come from the father. So, by testing the mother, the child and all the
candidate men, it can be determined which of the many possible men was
the real father. This came up in the famous Anna Nicole Smith case,
where dozens of men claimed to be the father of her child in order to
gain control of a substantial inheritance.

However, Autosomal DNA testing will only tell us who the father was.
It will not tell us who the father's father was. For that, you would
need a test of the father's mother too and so on each generation back
up the line. This will usually prove impossible.

Since the grave of Sally Hemings has never been found, that
possibility, already remote, is eliminated.

Thus, only Y-chromosome testing is useful for genetic purposes. It
must be emphasized however that this is rapidly evolving science. No
doubt new tests will be developed and better answers to these
questions will be found.

I will use myself an example of how Y-chromosome testing can be
useful, especially since I am unlikely to sue myself and some people
are upset when the results of their DNA tests come back. For example,
blacks are often upset when they find out that their direct male line
ancestor was a white man, as is the case of 25% to 30% of African
Americans. One of the Woodson descendants is still upset when the
results came back showing that he was NOT the descendant of Thomas
Jefferson, and he has written a book claiming that the test results
were wrong.

In my own case, I knew almost nothing about my own genealogy until I
started to research it at the same time that I started writing this
book. I only knew the names of three of my grandparents. I knew that
the name of my grandfather was Howard Creighton Sloan only because of
an old stock certificate that had been sitting on top of the
refrigerator at home for 40 years with his name on it.

Eventually, I found out that his father had been Creighton Sloan
(1842-1916). Beyond that was a brick wall, because there is no record
of who the father of Creighton Sloan was or where Creighton Sloan was
born. Some sources say that he was born in Philadelphia, but his death
certificate says that he was "born at sea, Irish".

I was contacted by someone named Susan Sloan, who stated that she was
forming a Sloan Family Surname project. She asked me to join the
project and agree to be tested. I joined. The results are online at:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...xed_columns=on

I am number 13599. Here are the results of my 37-allele marker test.

13599 Sloan R1b1
13231410111512121213132918910111125151930131315171 11019231615181838391212

What this means is that I am a member of the R1b1 haplogroup. This is
the most common group for Ireland and England. It is also an old
group. Perhaps the first migrants to England after the decline of the
Ice Age 11,000 years ago were members of this group. There is a major
debate that is still going on. The Ice Age lasted in Europe from about
30,000 years ago to about 11,000 years ago. It is assumed that during
this period humans could not survive in Europe except in the
Southern-most parts such as the bottom of Spain. During the Ice Age,
the sea levels were far lower, because so much of the water was ice.
England and Ireland were connected to Continental Europe by a land
bridge. It is believed that during the last stages of the Ice Age,
humans crossed from Continental Europe to England and Ireland, before
the land bridge was submerged. These early migrants were likely
members of the R1b1 haplogroup.

Humans lived in Europe before the Ice Age. These were the Neanderthal
Men. They died out, perhaps because of the Ice Age or perhaps because
they were killed off by the first modern men who arrived there at that
time.

However, it is possible that this is all wrong. Perhaps modern men did
live as far north as England and Ireland before or even during the Ice
Age. Research is being done of this subject.

There was a recent published report on hair color. Everywhere in the
world, the color of hair is black, except in Northern Europe, where
hair exists in a wide variety of colors, including blond, red, light
brown and many other shades in between. Why is that? The theory is
that during the Ice Age, women could not survive alone. There were no
crops to harvest. No berries, fruits or nuts. The food was animals,
which they needed to catch. For this, they needed men. A woman with
beautiful, blond hair would attract a man from a long distance. He
would bring her the game he had caught to eat. He would bring her
food, and she would give him sex. Thus, her genes would be passed on
to the next generation.

Meanwhile, a nearby black-haired woman might not attract attention and
interest of men and therefore she might die of starvation. Anyway,
that is the theory. The basis of this theory is that the wide
varieties of hair color are known to have developed in just the last
10,000 years in Northern Europe. The wide varieties of hair color
could not have developed that quickly through the normal
differentiation of the species, so there must have been other factors
at work.

There is something slightly unusual in my own DNA profile. That is the
second digit, 23, which represents the 390 allele. Almost all other
Sloans in my group have 24 at that marker. In addition, most other
Sloans differ from me on the 6th marker as well. I have 15. Most
others have 14. This is for 385b.

However, there is one other Sloan who has almost exactly the same
generic profile as me. I did research and found that his name is
Ronald Scott Sloan. He is number 39388. He is presently number 18 on
the list. He died recently.

I researched his genealogy and found that he is a descendant of
William Sloan, who was born in 1780 in Philadelphia. William Sloan was
married twice and had ten children, eight sons and two daughters. The
most famous of his sons was Samuel Sloan (1815-1884), known as "The
Architect of Philadelphia" and author of the book "The Model
Architect", which I am reprinting. I have long suspected that I am a
relative of that Samuel Sloan, because he had a son named Howard Sloan
and my name is Samuel Howard Sloan and he had a brother named Wesley
Sloan and my brother is named Creighton Wesley Sloan.

What we have is a similarity of names, the fact that all of these
people lived in Philadelphia and a near-perfect DNA match. This leads
me to the conclusion that one of the seven other sons of the William
Sloan who was born in Philadelphia in 1780 could be my great-great
grandfather. However, this is not proof.

It is entirely possible that the common ancestor between myself and
Ronald Scott Sloan lived several generations before that. What is
considered to be practically proven is that Ronald Scott Sloan and
myself share a common ancestor. We just do not know who that common
ancestor was.

It is believed that if two men with the same surname are a perfect DNA
match, then they have a common ancestor within probably seven
generations. However, note that Ronald Scott Sloan and myself are a
close match, but not a perfect match.

A new Sloan has joined the group. He is number 85539. He is a perfect
match with me except on allele 385b. His name is Donald K. Sloan and
he writes, "I can tell you that my grandfather, Mathew immigrated from
Ireland. I know nothing before him."

My DNA results are not that useful because I have the most common gene
type for European men, which is R1b1c. There are millions of men who
match me perfectly or nearly perfectly. Family Tree DNA has provided
me with a list of 67 men who match me perfectly on the 12 allele
marker test.

http://www.familytreedna.com/trs_ftM...599&code=H3135

Thomas Jefferson is an entirely different matter, because NOBODY
MATCHES WITH HIM, other than his immediate family.

The initial 1998 report in Nature magazine described Thomas
Jefferson's DNA type as "rare". This was a considerable
understatement. His DNA type was not merely rare. It was unique.

Thomas Jefferson was assigned his own new Haplogroup, which is K2. I
know what you are thinking. You are thinking about something between
Space Invaders and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. However, Thomas
Jefferson does not seem to have been a space invader. He was
definitely something different, however.

You have seen how in my own case, there are 67 men out of those tested
who match me perfectly on the 12 allele test. Almost all of these men
are from England or Northern Ireland.

However, in the case of Thomas Jefferson, no man has yet been found
who matches him on more than 6 alleles of a short 8 allele test. Few
even match him on more than five.

Thus, the improbable possibility that he was a space invader does seem
to loom a bit larger. However, he was probably not a space invader. He
was just a mutant.

Thomas Jefferson had red hair. As has just been explained, the current
theory is that red and blond hair developed in Northern Europe to make
women more beautiful and to attract more men. Every woman wants to
attract more men, whether they are willing to admit it or not. That is
a genetically driven, survival instinct. However, it is not really
relevant here because Thomas Jefferson's membership in the K2
Haplogroup merely shows that his father's father's father's father was
K2. The red hair, on the other hand, comes from a combination of all
his ancestors.

Sam Sloan

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1881373029/



At 10:31 PM 10/14/2001 -0700, Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr. wrote:
You forgot that he denied the affair; and thus
your premise begins with the fact, that on this
most critical matter, Thomas Jefferson must
be proven to be a liar.


Thomas Jefferson never denied the affair, and that is exactly the
point. The article you cited in a previous posting was just a rehash
of a thoroughly discredited book by Virginius Dabney written years
ago.

For example, the Dabney book and the website you cited stated that
Jefferson denied the affair in a letter to his Secretary of the Navy
which has not survived.

You have to know that Thomas Jefferson kept copies of all of his
letters. He had a copy machine which made a copy of every letter he
wrote. His letters have all been preserved. Many are held by the
Massachusetts Historical Society. Princeton University is working on a
40-year project to publish all of his letters.

To say that among all the thousands of letters which Thomas Jefferson
wrote, there is one letter in which he denied the Sally affair, but
that one letter has been lost, is patently ridiculous.

Then, the article you cite contains a quote from Thomas Jefferson in
which he said that the only offense he had ever committed was that he
once loved a handsome lady. That letter had nothing to do with Sally
Hemings. That letter concerned an adulterous affair Thomas Jefferson
had conducted with his best friend's wife, Elizabeth Walker, the wife
of General Walker. Before Monticello was built, General Walker was a
next door neighbor of Thomas Jefferson. When General Walker went off
to fight in one of the Indian Wars, Thomas Jefferson allegedly started
sleeping with his wife. Years later, General Walker found out about
this and challenged Thomas Jefferson to a duel. Jefferson declined.
His statement even more years after that that he once loved a handsome
lady was in response to a question about the Walker affair.

My book, "The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson" spends 50 pages
dealing with these and several other allegations. You obviously have
not read my book, because otherwise you would not be making the stupid
statements you keep making.

Sam Sloan

The DNA used was
not from Thomas Jefferson, but from the posterity
of his father's brother: Field Jefferson. Of the
Jefferson men, there were 25 within 20 miles of
Monticello.


Can you name those 25 Jefferson men? You cannot. You have just copied
this statement from something Harold Barger wrote. His wife is a white
descendant of Thomas Jefferson.


I reasonably conclude that the said
Thomas Jefferson was not a liar and
request that you no longer continue this
off topic issue, as it appears to me that
your intended medieval databases are just
a guise for publicity, to sell a book or books;
something not looked upon with favor.


I understand that this debate was going on for long before I joined
this group. You keep saying that Jefferson was not a liar. I agree.
Jefferson never denied that he was sleeping with Sally for 37 years.
He just remained silent. In the article you cite, it says that when
shown a newspaper article which stated that Jefferson was sleeping
with Sally, Jefferson gave it a hearty laugh. That was not a denial.

The article also mentions poems about the Sally affair which were
published in the newspapers while Jefferson was president. Here is one
of them. It was written by Joseph Dennie and published in the Boston
Gazette in 1802:

Of all the Damsels on the Green
On Mountain or in Valley
A lass so luscious never was seen
As Monticellan Sally

Yankee Doodle, whose the nooodle?
What wife were half so handy?
To breed a flock of slaves to stock
A blackamoors the dandy.



------------------------------------------------
Sam Sloan wrote:

In order to prove or even allege that someone other than Thomas Jefferson
was the father of Sally's five children, it would be necessary to show
that
someone other than Thomas Jefferson had contact with Sally during the
thirteen year period when she was producing children.

Sally had five children: Harriet, born 1795, Beverley born 1798, Harriet
II
born 22 May 1801, Madison born 19 Jan 1805 and Eston born 21 May 1808.

Although guests came and went at Monticello, nobody visited there
frequently enough or stayed there long enough to produce these children.

Please note that Sally never had a child named Tom and there was no slave
named Tom at Monticello, except for Tom Schackleford, an elderly wagon
driver.

But that is only the beginning: Combine that with the fact that Thomas
Jefferson gave all five of Sally's children their freedom, except for
Harriet I who died at age two, plus the fact that Sally and her two
remaining sons were names as beneficiaries in the will of Thomas
Jefferson,
plus the fact that all of the other slaves of Thomas Jefferson were sold
at
auction after he died, plus the many other facts surrounding this
situation
too numerous to mention here, no reasonable person could conclude that
anyone other than Thomas Jefferson was likely to be the father of Sally's
five children.

By the way, I am not by any means saying this "to stigmatize Thomas
Jefferson". I have eight children. He had five by Sally and six by his
regular wife, who was Sally's half-sister.

Sam Sloan
http://www.samsloan.com/slaves.htm


At 03:19 PM 10/14/2001 -0700, Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr. wrote:

There is overwhelming evidence that a member
of the Jefferson clan was involved. There is also
overwhelming evidence of a great desire on
the part of many, to stigmatize Thomas Jefferson
with the failings of a consorting Jefferson relative,
irrespective of the factual evidence proving otherwise.
------------------------------------------------------

Sam Sloan wrote:

At 08:51 PM 10/13/2001 +0100, D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Was it _Nature_ that supported the campaign that "Thomas Jefferson was
a
great man, but fooled around too ---- and even had an affair with one
of
his slaves, producing offspring ---- and here's the DNA evidence to
prove it." ?

Did the editor, who was allegedly not consulted properly, resign over
the allegedly sordid affair?

Or was that some other supposedly prestigious scientific journal?

The evidence is overwhelming that Thomas Jefferson did father at least
five
children by his slaves. It was overwhelming even before the DNA
evidence
came out.

What is your point?

Sam Sloan
http://www.samsloan.com/slaves.htm




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Old May 16th 07, 02:36 AM posted to soc.history.war.us-revolution,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.british,rec.games.chess.politics,soc.genealogy.medieval
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
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Default The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson

I have been researching the literature on the DNA of Thomas Jefferson.
I find one statement with which I disagree. They write:

"Despite its general rarity, there remains a sizeable subpopulation
in which Thomas Jefferson's Y chromosome could be frequent-all men
named Jefferson. This is because both Y chromosomes and surnames are
patrilinearly inherited, and a correlation exists between Y haplotypes
and surnames (Sykes and Irven, 2000; King et al., 2006; McEvoy and
Bradley, 2006)."

They may not be familiar with a problem which we Americans face, which
is that most of the time when we try to research our family history,
we encounter a brick wall when we try to go back before the first
ancestor who arrived in America. We can almost never find out who his
parents were.

Probably the most common reason for this that he changed his name. For
example, if a German named Karl comes to America he will call himself
Charles.

This is especially true when the immigrant is from a non-English
speaking country.

In the data, the closest match to the DNA of Thomas Jefferson is an
Egyptian man, who is one step away. The second closest match in a tie
between another Egyptian man and a Iberian man. A few steps further
away are a bunch of Somali men who constitute the largest group.

The closest European man is many steps away, so far away that I cannot
count the steps.

Nevertheless, they keep searching for men named Jefferson.

However, if an Egyptian man named Abu Jaffar or Abdul Jaffar came to
America, he would probably change his name to Jefferson, because that
is what Abu Jaffar means. Abu Jaffar means the Son of Jaffar.

Abu Jaffar and Abdul Jaffar are very common names in Egypt, among the
most common names, whereas the name Jefferson is relatively rare even
in England. It is common in America only because Thomas Jefferson had
187 slaves.

Therefore, I feel that they should completely forget about trying to
DNA match our Thomas Jefferson with anybody in England named
Jefferson.

Very Truly yours,

Sam Sloan

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