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Old October 21st 07, 08:57 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Welcome back at GetClub Chess.

I was out of town for a week. Came back and saw 2 things.

100s of new games were played at GetClub by new players.

Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

I saw Beginner Level won arround 10-15 games while Master Level lost
4-5 games with zebediah.

So Zebediah is still beating the master Level as usual.

Can someone tell me why the game is loosing to Zebediah. What are the
weaknesses in the game that need to be sorted out.

I saw Help Bot lost a game with Normal Level. It happened twice with
Help bot that he lost the game in between. Is there something wrong
with Helpbot Computer. As other 100 games played by other players none
of them got lost in between.

Why it is only happening to Help Bot. Is he clicking resign now button
many often?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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Old October 22nd 07, 06:25 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 9,302
Default Welcome back at GetClub Chess.


Sanny wrote:

I was out of town for a week. Came back and saw 2 things.

100s of new games were played at GetClub by new players.

Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

I saw Beginner Level won arround 10-15 games while Master Level lost
4-5 games with zebediah.

So Zebediah is still beating the master Level as usual.

Can someone tell me why the game is loosing to Zebediah. What are the
weaknesses in the game that need to be sorted out.

I saw Help Bot lost a game with Normal Level. It happened twice with
Help bot that he lost the game in between. Is there something wrong
with Helpbot Computer. As other 100 games played by other players none
of them got lost in between.

Why it is only happening to Help Bot. Is he clicking resign now button
many often?



First of all, help bot is a fish -- a total patzer, so it
should come as no surprise.... wait a minute!

How is it that help bot could click the "resigns"
button when it wasn't even his turn to move? Unless
it is your turn to move, the "resigns" button is not on
screen and generally speaking, people don't often
resign in winning positions -- except on this Web site,
on GetClub. Hmmm. :D

Maybe you are pointing the finger in the wrong
direction here. Maybe the problem is that GetClub's
chess program does not work correctly. Maybe we
have all seen this very same problem before. Think
hard now.


Sanny, the reason Zebediah is beating your program
on any level is that your program can easily be beaten
by any strong human player and by virtually any other
chess program in the world. Note that while you have
worked to placate critics by speeding things up a bit,
any operator can take as long as he wants or as long
as it takes in order to beat your program -- without
penalty.

For instance if I were to play Fritz at two seconds per
move against any level at GetClub, I think Fritz would
win. But suppose that in one game against your
Master level Zeb sees that Fritz stands worse: he could
simply give it a bit more time until it regains the
advantage, then drop back to two seconds again. There
is no penalty for the opponent taking a lot of time, just
as at one time there was no penalty for those people
who deliberately avoided resuming lost or drawn games.
(Many of those folks disappeared when you fixed that
leak.)

I don't see any point in continuing to worry over the
critics here who expect you to produce a 2000+ chess
program, but instead you might want to focus a bit on
eliminating bugs and getting the game to play perfectly
legal chess (that includes recognizing the existence of
draws).

When I try to delete relatively unimportant stuff on
other sites, such as an email or a list of stocks I am
watching, they ask me to check a box to confirm the
deletion, or else they ask to check a box AND then
click "delete". But on GetClub there are numerous
cases where the program has forfeited people in won
positions without so much as a how-do-you-do. You
could easily make it so that no more of these issues
come up, by doing what I pointed out months ago is
done at RedHotPawn, and what I have since noted is
done on ChessWorld, and that is force a confirmation
before the program ever forfeits anyone and tries to
say it was a voluntary resignation.

But I expect the real problem here is a bug in the
program, not a false-signal from any "resigns" button;
that is because it happens as often when I am not on
move as when it is my turn, and when I am not on the
move there is no such button -- not on my screen,
anyway. (BTW, I haven't resigned in a winning position
since around twenty years or more ago, when I was a
really, really weak player.)


-- help bot

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Old October 22nd 07, 09:48 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Welcome back at GetClub Chess.

On Oct 22, 10:25 am, help bot wrote:
Sanny wrote:
I was out of town for a week. Came back and saw 2 things.


100s of new games were played at GetClub by new players.


Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


I saw Beginner Level won arround 10-15 games while Master Level lost
4-5 games with zebediah.


So Zebediah is still beating the master Level as usual.


Can someone tell me why the game is loosing to Zebediah. What are the
weaknesses in the game that need to be sorted out.


I saw Help Bot lost a game with Normal Level. It happened twice with
Help bot that he lost the game in between. Is there something wrong
with Helpbot Computer. As other 100 games played by other players none
of them got lost in between.


Why it is only happening to Help Bot. Is he clicking resign now button
many often?


First of all, help bot is a fish -- a total patzer, so it
should come as no surprise.... wait a minute!

How is it that help bot could click the "resigns"
button when it wasn't even his turn to move? Unless
it is your turn to move, the "resigns" button is not on
screen and generally speaking, people don't often
resign in winning positions -- except on this Web site,
on GetClub. Hmmm. :D

Maybe you are pointing the finger in the wrong
direction here. Maybe the problem is that GetClub's
chess program does not work correctly. Maybe we
have all seen this very same problem before. Think
hard now.

Sanny, the reason Zebediah is beating your program
on any level is that your program can easily be beaten
by any strong human player and by virtually any other
chess program in the world. Note that while you have
worked to placate critics by speeding things up a bit,
any operator can take as long as he wants or as long
as it takes in order to beat your program -- without
penalty.

For instance if I were to play Fritz at two seconds per
move against any level at GetClub, I think Fritz would
win. But suppose that in one game against your
Master level Zeb sees that Fritz stands worse: he could
simply give it a bit more time until it regains the
advantage, then drop back to two seconds again. There
is no penalty for the opponent taking a lot of time, just
as at one time there was no penalty for those people
who deliberately avoided resuming lost or drawn games.
(Many of those folks disappeared when you fixed that
leak.)

I don't see any point in continuing to worry over the
critics here who expect you to produce a 2000+ chess
program, but instead you might want to focus a bit on
eliminating bugs and getting the game to play perfectly
legal chess (that includes recognizing the existence of
draws).

When I try to delete relatively unimportant stuff on
other sites, such as an email or a list of stocks I am
watching, they ask me to check a box to confirm the
deletion, or else they ask to check a box AND then
click "delete". But on GetClub there are numerous
cases where the program has forfeited people in won
positions without so much as a how-do-you-do. You
could easily make it so that no more of these issues
come up, by doing what I pointed out months ago is
done at RedHotPawn, and what I have since noted is
done on ChessWorld, and that is force a confirmation
before the program ever forfeits anyone and tries to
say it was a voluntary resignation.

But I expect the real problem here is a bug in the
program, not a false-signal from any "resigns" button;
that is because it happens as often when I am not on
move as when it is my turn, and when I am not on the
move there is no such button -- not on my screen,
anyway. (BTW, I haven't resigned in a winning position
since around twenty years or more ago, when I was a
really, really weak player.)

-- help bot- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


There was a few things done. So now even if you press resign now
button by mistake it will not resign. It will resign when you press
resign button after 4 seconds have passed. So Only when it is your
Move and 4 seconds has passed Resign Now button will Resign.

I hope this will clear this problem.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

I find Zebediah makes 10-12 depth analysis while GetClub Master Level
goes till 9-10 depth only. That is the reasion Zebediah sacrifices its
pieces and after 12 moves get a strong position which Master Level
could not see.

While Beginner Level keeps beating the new players and has increased
its rating from 600 to 950. While Master Level has gone below 500.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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Old October 22nd 07, 07:31 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 9,302
Default Welcome back at GetClub Chess.

On Oct 22, 3:48 am, Sanny wrote:

I find Zebediah makes 10-12 depth analysis while GetClub Master Level
goes till 9-10 depth only. That is the reasion Zebediah sacrifices its
pieces and after 12 moves get a strong position which Master Level
could not see.

While Beginner Level keeps beating the new players and has increased
its rating from 600 to 950. While Master Level has gone below 500.



If you really do have new players, that would explain,
in part, why the Beginner level has gone up in rating;
but another reason, obviously, is that I am no longer
beating it like a carrot. :D


-- help bot

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Old October 23rd 07, 05:42 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Welcome back at GetClub Chess.

On Oct 22, 11:31 pm, help bot wrote:
On Oct 22, 3:48 am, Sanny wrote:

I find Zebediah makes 10-12 depth analysis while GetClub Master Level
goes till 9-10 depth only. That is the reasion Zebediah sacrifices its
pieces and after 12 moves get a strong position which Master Level
could not see.


While Beginner Level keeps beating the new players and has increased
its rating from 600 to 950. While Master Level has gone below 500.


If you really do have new players, that would explain,
in part, why the Beginner level has gone up in rating;
but another reason, obviously, is that I am no longer
beating it like a carrot. :D

-- help bot


Since last game with Normal Level the game was finished in between
your ratings has been adjusted to what it was before the game played
and your scores have been changed to older values.

So now you can take up the challenge.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

I remember you have played 100s of games and it never happened that
your game finished in between. Is there any thing changed in your
computer settings that last 2 games were not finished properly?

As Earlier this problem was not there with your computer.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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