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Old October 23rd 07, 03:23 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Who is the Victim?

While 'everyone' seems to have agreed on who the perp is, I am still
struggling to assess who the victim is. Here is a part of a note from
Gambit:

--
I read hundreds of comments by USCF members both pro- and anti-Sloan during
the election cycle, but not even one comment considered the fake Usenet
postings to be a reason to oppose Sloan. In fact, the fake Usenet postings
may have even helped Sloan's election chances, because they evoked public
expressions of sympathy for Sloan from people like Jack LeMoine who usually
disagreed with him.
- Posted by Chris Falter

--

I suggest that perhaps that is a better place to start, since if Sam Sloan
is really a means to get at some issue, what is the issue? and if there is a
greater victim here than him, who is it?

Of course! The victim may truly be the culpable party who posed as FSS - or
not. The victim may be someone wishing to implicate another as FSS.

--

I think maybe if we agree who the real victim is, then, and only then, is it
time to go looking for a perp. And O! - the issue. The issue is who has
power, no? Who will control chess in USA - will it be USCF, or can other
parties also play a part, especially at areas where USCF has signally
failed?

Who wants to do that? Who wants to nix that?

Phil Innes








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Old October 23rd 07, 03:31 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Who is the Victim?

On Oct 23, 7:23 am, "Chess One" wrote:
While 'everyone' seems to have agreed on who the perp is, I am still
struggling to assess who the victim is. Here is a part of a note from
Gambit:

--
I read hundreds of comments by USCF members both pro- and anti-Sloan during
the election cycle, but not even one comment considered the fake Usenet
postings to be a reason to oppose Sloan. In fact, the fake Usenet postings
may have even helped Sloan's election chances, because they evoked public
expressions of sympathy for Sloan from people like Jack LeMoine who usually
disagreed with him.
- Posted by Chris Falter

--

I suggest that perhaps that is a better place to start, since if Sam Sloan
is really a means to get at some issue, what is the issue? and if there is a
greater victim here than him, who is it?

Of course! The victim may truly be the culpable party who posed as FSS - or
not. The victim may be someone wishing to implicate another as FSS.

--

I think maybe if we agree who the real victim is, then, and only then, is it
time to go looking for a perp. And O! - the issue. The issue is who has
power, no? Who will control chess in USA - will it be USCF, or can other
parties also play a part, especially at areas where USCF has signally
failed?

Who wants to do that? Who wants to nix that?

Phil Innes


IMHO the biggest victims of all the impersonations (not just Sloan)
are the USCF and the United States chess community.

Cheers,
J.D. Walker

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Old October 23rd 07, 03:46 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Who is the Victim?

On Oct 23, 9:31 am, "j.d.walker" wrote:
On Oct 23, 7:23 am, "Chess One" wrote:



While 'everyone' seems to have agreed on who the perp is, I am still
struggling to assess who the victim is. Here is a part of a note from
Gambit:


--
I read hundreds of comments by USCF members both pro- and anti-Sloan during
the election cycle, but not even one comment considered the fake Usenet
postings to be a reason to oppose Sloan. In fact, the fake Usenet postings
may have even helped Sloan's election chances, because they evoked public
expressions of sympathy for Sloan from people like Jack LeMoine who usually
disagreed with him.
- Posted by Chris Falter


--


I suggest that perhaps that is a better place to start, since if Sam Sloan
is really a means to get at some issue, what is the issue? and if there is a
greater victim here than him, who is it?


Of course! The victim may truly be the culpable party who posed as FSS - or
not. The victim may be someone wishing to implicate another as FSS.


--


I think maybe if we agree who the real victim is, then, and only then, is it
time to go looking for a perp. And O! - the issue. The issue is who has
power, no? Who will control chess in USA - will it be USCF, or can other
parties also play a part, especially at areas where USCF has signally
failed?


Who wants to do that? Who wants to nix that?


Phil Innes


IMHO the biggest victims of all the impersonations (not just Sloan)
are the USCF and the United States chess community.

Cheers,
J.D. Walker


I second this. And incidentally, Sloan wasn't the only one
impersonated.

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Old October 23rd 07, 03:55 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Who is the Victim?

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:23:09 GMT, "Chess One"
wrote:

While 'everyone' seems to have agreed on who the perp is, I am still
struggling to assess who the victim is. Here is a part of a note from
Gambit:


--
I read hundreds of comments by USCF members both pro- and anti-Sloan during
the election cycle, but not even one comment considered the fake Usenet
postings to be a reason to oppose Sloan. In fact, the fake Usenet postings
may have even helped Sloan's election chances, because they evoked public
expressions of sympathy for Sloan from people like Jack LeMoine who usually
disagreed with him.
- Posted by Chris Falter


I suggest that perhaps that is a better place to start, since if Sam Sloan
is really a means to get at some issue, what is the issue? and if there is a
greater victim here than him, who is it?


Of course! The victim may truly be the culpable party who posed as FSS - or
not. The victim may be someone wishing to implicate another as FSS.


Regarding Falter's comment. Analogy: somebody punches me in the nose
and breaks it. While x-raying my nose, the doctor detects I have a
brain-tumor. The perp argues that he, in fact, saved my life and
should be rewarded rather than charged with assault. Think that
defense will fly?

Anyway, Sloan is the only person who (thus far) has filed suit.
Sloan is not the only victim. And the point of many of the FSS
comments was not to damage Sloan (or Gordon) but to use them as
vehicles to damage others.

We have Hal Bogner, whose business was slandered.

We have various board candidates whose chances for election were
possibly compromised when they were associated with Sloan or Gordon on
issues or times when this didn't truly represent their positions.

We have various women in chess who were degraded and insulted by the
remarks of the FSS.

And possibly the USCF itself, who may be governed by a board different
from the one which might have been elected if not for the
disinformation spread by the FSS.

Phil, all this stuff has been discussed and reiterated over and over
in the forum. If you are "still trying to assess who the victim is",
perhaps you should take the time to review some old posts. It doesn't
appear you are yet in a position to add value to the discussion.
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Old October 23rd 07, 04:10 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Who is the Victim?

On Oct 23, 9:55 am, Mike Murray wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:23:09 GMT, "Chess One"
wrote:



While 'everyone' seems to have agreed on who the perp is, I am still
struggling to assess who the victim is. Here is a part of a note from
Gambit:
--
I read hundreds of comments by USCF members both pro- and anti-Sloan during
the election cycle, but not even one comment considered the fake Usenet
postings to be a reason to oppose Sloan. In fact, the fake Usenet postings
may have even helped Sloan's election chances, because they evoked public
expressions of sympathy for Sloan from people like Jack LeMoine who usually
disagreed with him.
- Posted by Chris Falter
I suggest that perhaps that is a better place to start, since if Sam Sloan
is really a means to get at some issue, what is the issue? and if there is a
greater victim here than him, who is it?
Of course! The victim may truly be the culpable party who posed as FSS - or
not. The victim may be someone wishing to implicate another as FSS.


Regarding Falter's comment. Analogy: somebody punches me in the nose
and breaks it. While x-raying my nose, the doctor detects I have a
brain-tumor. The perp argues that he, in fact, saved my life and
should be rewarded rather than charged with assault. Think that
defense will fly?

Anyway, Sloan is the only person who (thus far) has filed suit.
Sloan is not the only victim. And the point of many of the FSS
comments was not to damage Sloan (or Gordon) but to use them as
vehicles to damage others.

We have Hal Bogner, whose business was slandered.

We have various board candidates whose chances for election were
possibly compromised when they were associated with Sloan or Gordon on
issues or times when this didn't truly represent their positions.

We have various women in chess who were degraded and insulted by the
remarks of the FSS.

And possibly the USCF itself, who may be governed by a board different
from the one which might have been elected if not for the
disinformation spread by the FSS.

Phil, all this stuff has been discussed and reiterated over and over
in the forum. If you are "still trying to assess who the victim is",
perhaps you should take the time to review some old posts. It doesn't
appear you are yet in a position to add value to the discussion.


But he did give us a new item for the Blind Monkey list, Mike.



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Old October 23rd 07, 04:56 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Who is the Victim?

On Oct 23, 10:23 am, "Chess One" wrote:
While 'everyone' seems to have agreed on who the perp is, I am still
struggling to assess who the victim is. Here is a part of a note from
Gambit:

--
I read hundreds of comments by USCF members both pro- and anti-Sloan during
the election cycle, but not even one comment considered the fake Usenet
postings to be a reason to oppose Sloan. In fact, the fake Usenet postings
may have even helped Sloan's election chances, because they evoked public
expressions of sympathy for Sloan from people like Jack LeMoine who usually
disagreed with him.
- Posted by Chris Falter


I need to point out that Chris Falter and Jack LeMoine were two of my
strongest opponents during the USCF election and were the two biggest
supporters of Susan Polgar. For Chris Falter to say that his vicious
attacks helped me is pure nonsense.

Chris Falter is one of these religious nuts from South Carolina.

Chris Falter was especially objectionable because he often claimed
that he knew things that he did not know. More importantly, he quoted
me on the USCF Forums as writing that I had "gone all the way with
Susan Polgar" when she was 17 years old. This was a lie. I have never
written or stated any such thing.

Sam Sloan

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Old October 23rd 07, 05:16 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Who is the Victim?

On Oct 23, 10:56 am, samsloan wrote:

[...]

Chris Falter is one of these religious nuts from South Carolina.

Chris Falter was especially objectionable because he often claimed
that he knew things that he did not know. More importantly, he quoted
me on the USCF Forums as writing that I had "gone all the way with
Susan Polgar" when she was 17 years old. This was a lie. I have never
written or stated any such thing.

Sam Sloan


One current USCF Board member made the following statement in an email
exchange with me on June 5, 2007:

Bill Brock wrote:

"Sloan claims to have had sexual relations with Polgar (while she was
a minor, while he claimed to be acting as a fiduciary, in the course
of USCF business). He made this claim twice. As fiduciary, you are
silent."

USCF Board member replied:

"I have seen no such claim. I believe he said she was his girlfriend
many years ago at an age which would make her a minor in the US but an
adult in Hungary. She has denied having relations with him and he has
told people they didn't really have relations but did have foreplay.
I don't know who to believe but think they did not have sexual
relations."

Some context:

http://direkickfeud.blogspot.com/200...in-praxis.html

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Old October 24th 07, 12:18 AM posted to rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Who is the Victim?


wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 23, 10:56 am, samsloan wrote:


Mr. Brock,

It has been such an interesting afternoon seeing and listening to who avers
what, and who withdraws all, but in all, I think a hit, a palpable hit!

Some people's eyes will water after this - and between tides, they celebrate
like drunken fools. It is not necessary to provide yet more detail of
personal intrigue over which people can indecently feast.

The axe-man cometh!

---

This is merely to make a statement about politicking - it has naught to do
with what furthers us.

Phil Innes


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Old October 24th 07, 06:17 AM posted to rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Who is the Victim?

On Oct 23, 9:23 am, "Chess One" wrote:
While 'everyone' seems to have agreed on who the perp is, I am still
struggling to assess who the victim is. Here is a part of a note from
Gambit:

--
I read hundreds of comments by USCF members both pro- and anti-Sloan during
the election cycle, but not even one comment considered the fake Usenet
postings to be a reason to oppose Sloan. In fact, the fake Usenet postings
may have even helped Sloan's election chances, because they evoked public
expressions of sympathy for Sloan from people like Jack LeMoine who usually
disagreed with him.
- Posted by Chris Falter

--

I suggest that perhaps that is a better place to start, since if Sam Sloan
is really a means to get at some issue, what is the issue? and if there is a
greater victim here than him, who is it?

Of course! The victim may truly be the culpable party who posed as FSS - or
not. The victim may be someone wishing to implicate another as FSS.

--

I think maybe if we agree who the real victim is, then, and only then, is it
time to go looking for a perp. And O! - the issue. The issue is who has
power, no? Who will control chess in USA - will it be USCF, or can other
parties also play a part, especially at areas where USCF has signally
failed?

Who wants to do that? Who wants to nix that?

Phil Innes


Phil Innes

HAve you run for office before? If you have, you will realize that any
conduct such as pretending to be
another candidate is grounds for REMOVAL from elected office. I am a
public figure in Floirda, and the
rules are quite strict. You are trying to say that Sam Sloan wasn't
hurt, and you might be right.

However, it is NERD logic. More expereinced politicans realize that
Sam Sloan doesn't matter. What
matters is that a successful candidate (Troung) pretended to be Sloan,
a loser.

Quit being a NERD. What happens in Vermont if your local Mayor does
this? Well, my guess in most
of the 50 states in ths Union is that if you cheat in elections, you
lose your office.

Marcus Roberts

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Old October 24th 07, 01:52 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics
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Posts: 5,003
Default Who is the Victim?


wrote in message
ups.com...

HAve you run for office before?


I've mostly run away from them.

If you have, you will realize that any
conduct such as pretending to be
another candidate is grounds for REMOVAL from elected office. I am a
public figure in Floirda, and the
rules are quite strict. You are trying to say that Sam Sloan wasn't
hurt, and you might be right.


Maybe?

However, it is NERD logic. More expereinced politicans realize that
Sam Sloan doesn't matter.


If he's not hurt, then we have a 'victimless crime!' Except...

What
matters is that a successful candidate (Troung) pretended to be Sloan,
a loser.

Quit being a NERD. What happens in Vermont if your local Mayor does
this? Well, my guess in most
of the 50 states in ths Union is that if you cheat in elections, you
lose your office.


What happens in Vermont if anyone is accused in the media or down at the
fish-wharf of something, is the same as everywhere else. People say their
opinions, and wait until all the truth is out. Then they discuss what
happens in the court. Then they say what they think of that.

In Vermont if someone is accused of something, like the mayor or the head of
the Police Department, then it is usually taken seriously, even though
people play politics with mayors, and some types don't like the cops. In
fact, talking of Offices, I was on a board to do with Youth Affairs in the
County with assorted shrinks, a local justice, and the chief of police who
had recently been accused of being a dope dealer [by a dope dealer].

Even so, we duly investigated the issue.

In this instance, I think you have slightly ducked the issue of who the
victim is, only conceding that 'maybe' it was Sam Sloan, and that
uncertainly did his chances suffer.

Whose chances have suffered /more/? That's the question. I would say that
someone else has suffered much more than SS.

Because, Marcus, in Vermont you can't really investigate who the perp is,
until you decide what crime is alleged to have been commited, and against
whom.

Phil Innes

Marcus Roberts



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