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Old May 30th 08, 06:39 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Zebediah took 47 moves to win Advance Level.

Zebediah used to win the Advance level in 30 moves earlier. But as the
game was improved by Help Bot Suggestions, I find that last 2 games
Zebediiah is taking more than 40 moves to win the game.

And in todays game he needed 47 moves to win. So a clear sight of
improvement for GetClub Chess is seen.

Zebediah use some very strong computer to beat the Advance Level.
Advance level thinks for 30 min / move So it thinks atleast 18 depth
ahead.

Do you think there is any scope of further improvement in GetClubs
game.

Because of your suggestions GetClub is playing like a beast. But still
it need more strength to win against Zebediah a big Chess cruncher.

Game Played between zebediah and advance at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zebediah: (Black)
advance: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...344&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(advance) -- (zebediah)

1. e2-e4{0} c7-c5{24}
2. Ng1-f3{0} Nb8-c6{6}
3. Nb1-c3{0} g7-g6{298}
4. d2-d4{1830} c5-d4{1270}
5. Nf3-d4{1930} Bf8-g7{2556}
6. Bc1-e3{2590} Ng8-f6{1472}
7. Nd4-c6{1290} b7-c6{472}
8. Bf1-c4{1624} Ke8-g8{1332}
9. Be3-d4{2256} c6-c5{3578}
10. Bd4-c5{0} Qd8-c7{788}
11. Bc5-e7{1348} Qc7-c4{386}
12. Be7-f8{3088} Kg8-f8{178}
13. Qd1-d3{1336} Qc4-c6{130}
14. Ke1-c1{1966} Ra8-b8{1308}
15. Qd3-d6{1920} Qc6-d6{748}
16. Rd1-d6{1754} Nf6-g4{12}
17. f2-f4{1750} Ng4-e3{194}
18. e4-e5{2314} Ne3-g2{222}
19. Rh1-f1{2808} Ng2-e3{32}
20. Rf1-f3{2266} Ne3-f5{818}
21. Rd6-d3{1946} f7-f6{262}
22. Rd3-d5{1606} Bc8-b7{634}
23. e5-f6{1744} Bg7-f6{6}
24. Rd5-b5{2784} Nf5-d4{62}
25. Rb5-b7{1350} Rb8-b7{22}
26. Rf3-f2{2324} Nd4-f5{42}
27. Nc3-d1{3514} Rb7-b4{1652}
28. Kc1-b1{1376} Rb4-d4{36}
29. Rf2-f1{1472} Kf8-f7{288}
30. c2-c3{2058} Rd4-d2{140}
31. Rf1-h1{2824} d7-d5{240}
32. a2-a3{2092} d5-d4{26}
33. c3-d4{2218} Nf5-d4{34}
34. Kb1-c1{1834} Nd4-b3{854}
35. Kc1-b1{1590} Nb3-c5{4410}
36. h2-h3{2542} Nc5-d3{156}
37. f4-f5{1548} g6-f5{176}
38. b2-b4{2924} f5-f4{176}
39. Rh1-g1{2936} f4-f3{142}
40. Rg1-f1{2118} f3-f2{194}
41. h3-h4{1480} Rd2-d1{316}
42. Rf1-d1{1286} Nd3-e1{476}
43. Kb1-a2{1400} Qf2-f1{Q}{26}
44. Rd1-d7{1332} Kf7-e6{40}
45. Rd7-c7{1386} Qf1-f2{32}
46. Ka2-b3{1558} Qf2-g3{30}
47. Kb3-c4{602}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zebediah: (Black)
advance: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...344&game=Chess

What do you think should be improved in GetClub Chess? Is it loosing
because of strategical mistake or the depth of calculations?

How much more deep it should see in 30 min / move.

How much deep can a Strong Chess Player see? Zebediah is a great
Challenge for GetClub Chess.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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Old May 30th 08, 09:12 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Zebediah took 47 moves to win Advance Level.

Today a 20% improvement was done as a few lines of codes were not
needed So they have been deleted and the game will play 20% better
moves.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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Old May 30th 08, 08:33 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jan 2006
Posts: 470
Default Zebediah took 47 moves to win Advance Level.

On May 30, 1:12*am, Sanny wrote:
Today a 20% improvement was done as a few lines of codes were not
needed So they have been deleted and the game will play 20% better
moves.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


Uh, you're going to have to clarify that. How can removing "a few
lines of code" improve play 20%?

Is your engine now 20% faster? That's great, but by typical theory it
will only give you an increase of 10-15 ELO points at most, all else
being equal.

What does "20% better moves" mean? Is your engine scoring 20% better
on test suites? That would be about the only way I would accept that
statement (and there would still be lots of questions).

jm
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Old May 30th 08, 09:29 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jan 2006
Posts: 470
Default Zebediah took 47 moves to win Advance Level.

On May 29, 10:39*pm, Sanny wrote:
Zebediah used to win the Advance level in 30 moves earlier. But as the
game was improved by Help Bot Suggestions, I find that last 2 games
Zebediiah is taking more than 40 moves to win the game.

And in todays game he needed 47 moves to win. So a clear sight of
improvement for GetClub Chess is seen.

Zebediah use some very strong computer to beat the Advance Level.
Advance level thinks for 30 min / move So it thinks atleast 18 depth
ahead.

Do you think there is any scope of further improvement in GetClubs
game.

Because of your suggestions GetClub is playing like a beast. But still
it need more strength to win against Zebediah a big Chess cruncher.

Game Played between zebediah and advance at GetClub.com

*zebediah: (Black)
advance: (White)
Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...344&game=Chess

What do you think should be improved in GetClub Chess? Is it loosing
because of strategical mistake or the depth of calculations?

How much more deep it should see in 30 min / move.

How much deep can a Strong Chess Player see? Zebediah is a great
Challenge for GetClub Chess.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


There are several problems with this game.

1) 22.Rd5 is a terrible blunder, as it allows the forking of the rooks
with 22...Bb7. Perhaps your engine does not see that the Rook on d5 is
skewered to the Rook on f3? The game is definitely over after this
move. You may say that it took 47 moves for Black to win, but it
really took White only 22 moves (at most) to lose.
2) 10.Bxc5 is not a good move. It is way too materialistic and is
probably the move that started the downward spiral. After 12.Kx48,
White may be up one point in material, but Black has excellent
compensation. After this move, The King (CM9_R1 personality) shows
Black with a very small advantage at this point.
3) White's insistence on trading queens (13.Qd3 and 15.Qd6+) make me
believe that White is following the rule "trade down when you're ahead
material" too literally, as it allowed Black's Knight to start
attacking and generally disrupting White's plans.
4) There was at least one instance in which Advanced did not find
optimal moves when it was about to be checkmated. The last move of the
game, Kc4, allows it to be mated in two moves, rather than the optimal
Ka4 or Rc3, both of which require mate in four moves.

jm
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Old May 31st 08, 05:18 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Zebediah took 47 moves to win Advance Level.

On May 31, 12:33*am, wrote:
On May 30, 1:12*am, Sanny wrote:

Today a 20% improvement was done as a few lines of codes were not
needed So they have been deleted and the game will play 20% better
moves.


Bye
Sanny


PlayChessat:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


Uh, you're going to have to clarify that. How can removing "a few
lines of code" improve play 20%?

Is your engine now 20% faster? That's great, but by typical theory it
will only give you an increase of 10-15 ELO points at most, all else
being equal.

What does "20% better moves" mean? Is your engine scoring 20% better
on test suites? That would be about the only way I would accept that
statement (and there would still be lots of questions).

jm


When I say 20% better it means now it takes 20% less time to search a
depth of moves. Say It takes 10 seconds earloer to see upto depth 12.
Now it will take just 80% time to search that much depth.

Its that simple. I always know how much time it takes to reach a depth
and when improvement is done I just measure how much less time it is
taking to reach the same depth.

And to test the improvements I play a few games against Rybka and find
how many extra moves needed for Rybka to win the game.


3 months back Rybka used totake 20-25 Moves to win Easy Level.

1 month Nack Rybka used to take 30 moves to win easy Level.

Now after lots of improvements I see Rybka takes 35 moves to win the
Easy Level. This is another way to know if the program is working well
or not.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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Old May 31st 08, 05:29 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Zebediah took 47 moves to win Advance Level.

1) 22.Rd5 is a terrible blunder, as it allows the forking of the rooks
with 22...Bb7. Perhaps your engine does not see that the Rook on d5 is
skewered to the Rook on f3? The game is definitely over after this


Actually the Pin of two rooks could be saved by moving the Rook to pin
the Bishop. It was the Knight move that forkedthe two rooks that
killed the game. Lokks like Advance level overlooked that.

3) White's insistence on trading queens (13.Qd3 and 15.Qd6+) make me
believe that White is following the rule "trade down when you're ahead
material" too literally, as it allowed Black's Knight to start
attacking and generally disrupting White's plans.


Yes it gives advantage to exchanges when winning.

4) There was at least one instance in which Advanced did not find
optimal moves when it was about to be checkmated. The last move of the
game, Kc4, allows it to be mated in two moves, rather than the optimal
Ka4 or Rc3, both of which require mate in four moves.


When it sees Mate It make any moved Randomly as all are having same
loss.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



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