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Old June 12th 08, 07:25 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
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Default Two Rooks vs Knight+Rook ending?

Here is a game where Master Level has 2 Rooks left with 6 pawns and
Help Bot has Rook and Knight and 7 Pawns.


So Help Bot had Knight+Pawn vs Rook. So Master Level was at advantage
at Rook is equal to Knight + 2 Pawns while Help bot had only 1 extra
pawn.

But Help Bot advanced its pawns and killed many pawns of GetClub.

End Game is very weak So GetClub lost many pawns and in end Help Bot
got the Queen & win.

Till 25th move GetClub was at advantage of 1 Pawn. But after that what
happened that it lost the game?

Please tell me which were the wrong moves and what should GetClub had
done to get a win.

Game Played between help bot and master at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...686&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(master) -- (help bot)

1. d2-d4{1320} Ng8-f6{14}
2. Nb1-c3{4382} d7-d5{16}
3. Ng1-f3{2716} e7-e6{38}
4. Nf3-e5{2414} Nb8-d7{78}
5. a2-a3{1808} Nd7-e5{62}
6. d4-e5{1752} Nf6-d7{24}
7. e2-e4{2850} d5-e4{112}
8. Bc1-f4{1520} Bf8-e7{184}
9. Nc3-e4{2134} Ke8-g8{34}
10. Bf1-d3{1974} Qd8-e8{260}
11. Ke1-g1{2426} Nd7-b6{182}
12. Qd1-g4{1738} Kg8-h8{30}
13. Ne4-f6{1762} Be7-f6{500}
14. e5-f6{1448} g7-g6{44}
15. Bf4-h6{1974} Rf8-g8{448}
16. Ra1-d1{5230} Bc8-d7{584}
17. Rf1-e1{2790} Bd7-c6{422}
18. Bh6-g7{2068} Rg8-g7{44}
19. f6-g7{2460} Kh8-g7{10}
20. Qg4-f4{1436} Qe8-e7{120}
21. Bd3-e4{1350} Bc6-e4{70}
22. Qf4-e5{2276} Qe7-f6{124}
23. Qe5-f6{1314} Kg7-f6{8}
24. Re1-e4{2328} Kf6-e7{50}
25. Rd1-d4{1304} h7-h5{308} {GetClub is up one Pawn.}
26. b2-b4{3836} a7-a5{1178}
27. b4-b5{1934} Ra8-c8{58}
28. c2-c3{1996} c7-c5{486}
29. Rd4-d2{2286} c5-c4{154}
30. Rd2-d4{2012} Rc8-c5{130}
31. a3-a4{2130} f7-f5{94}
32. Re4-e3{3476} Nb6-a4{134}
33. h2-h4{1632} e6-e5{94}
34. f2-f4{1776} e5-e4{132}
35. Re3-g3{1772} Rc5-b5{408}
36. Rd4-c4{3608} Na4-b2{200}
37. Rc4-d4{1310} Rb5-b6{120}
38. c3-c4{1548} Nb2-d3{46}
39. c4-c5{1914} Nd3-c5{42}
40. Rg3-e3{2512} Rb6-b1{172}
41. Kg1-h2{2136} b7-b5{60}
42. Rd4-d5{1344} Nc5-e6{72}
43. g2-g3{2708} Rb1-b2{162}
44. Kh2-h3{1586} Ne6-c7{154}
45. Rd5-d3{2440} b5-b4{1066}
46. Rd3-d1{4880} a5-a4{60}
47. Re3-e1{6504} a4-a3{88}
48. Re1-f1{5490} a3-a2{62}
49. Rd1-c1{7012} Nc7-d5{70}
50. Rf1-e1{2008} Nd5-c3{40}
51. Rc1-c3{4706} b4-c3{36}
52. Re1-a1{330} c3-c2{48}
53. g3-g4{3172} h5-g4{44}
54. Kh3-g3{470} Rb2-b3{78}
55. Kg3-g2{512} Rb3-a3{42}
56. Kg2-f1{350} Rc2-c1{R}{28}
57. Ra1-c1{356} Qa2-a1{Q}{50}
58. Rc1-a1{358} Ra3-a1{6}
59. Kf1-f2{502} Ke7-e6{40}
60. Kf2-e2{808} g4-g3{32}
61. Ke2-d2{600} Ra1-a3{44}
62. Kd2-c2{1180} Ra3-d3{22}
63. h4-h5{612} g6-h5{14}
64. Kc2-b2{
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...686&game=Chess


Let me know why GetClub lost despite being ahead by 1 Pawn?

What should getclub have done to win this game.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

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Old June 12th 08, 11:27 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,015
Default Two Rooks vs Knight+Rook ending?

Sanny wrote:

Here is a game where Master Level has 2 Rooks left with 6 pawns and
Help Bot has Rook and Knight and 7 Pawns.


So Help Bot had Knight+Pawn vs Rook. So Master Level was at advantage
at Rook is equal to Knight + 2 Pawns while Help bot had only 1 extra
pawn.

But Help Bot advanced its pawns and killed many pawns of GetClub.


It seems Getclub has all the skill of a lemming in the endgame
transition. Several of its moves are lamentably bad here.

End Game is very weak So GetClub lost many pawns and in end Help Bot
got the Queen & win.

Till 25th move GetClub was at advantage of 1 Pawn. But after that what
happened that it lost the game?


At around move 12 Getclub had a considerable advantage - sufficient that
any decent modern program should have won against a human.

Please tell me which were the wrong moves and what should GetClub had
done to get a win.


Taken a bit more care of its pawns and computed the exchanges more
accurately. It needs to know that once it has a material advantage the
fastest way to win is to swap off pieces in equal exchanges and preserve
pawns (and conversely to avoid that when down on material).

Also it needs to understand that leaving your king sat in a prepared
back rank mate trap is never a good idea - especially not when one of
the best moves on the board is to advance f4.

White -- Black
(master) -- (help bot)

1. d2-d4{1320} Ng8-f6{14}
2. Nb1-c3{4382} d7-d5{16}
3. Ng1-f3{2716} e7-e6{38}
4. Nf3-e5{2414} Nb8-d7{78}
5. a2-a3{1808} Nd7-e5{62}
6. d4-e5{1752} Nf6-d7{24}
7. e2-e4{2850} d5-e4{112}
8. Bc1-f4{1520} Bf8-e7{184}
9. Nc3-e4{2134} Ke8-g8{34}
10. Bf1-d3{1974} Qd8-e8{260}

10. .... f5/f6 is better
11. Ke1-g1{2426} Nd7-b6{182}

10. .... f5/f6 is better
12. Qd1-g4{1738} Kg8-h8{30}


At this point Getclub is winning handsomely. 12. Nf6+ is probably
slightly better but Qg4 is OK (12. ... h5 is playable then).

13. Ne4-f6{1762} Be7-f6{500}
14. e5-f6{1448} g7-g6{44}
15. Bf4-h6{1974} Rf8-g8{448}
16. Ra1-d1{5230} Bc8-d7{584}
17. Rf1-e1{2790} Bd7-c6{422}
18. Bh6-g7{2068} Rg8-g7{44}


This squanders the tension built up against blacks king.
18. b4/Qg3/Qf4 all OK here. Still OK

19. f6-g7{2460} Kh8-g7{10}
20. Qg4-f4{1436} Qe8-e7{120}
21. Bd3-e4{1350} Bc6-e4{70}
22. Qf4-e5{2276} Qe7-f6{124}


Spite check. 22. Qxe4 c6 is best for white

23. Qe5-f6{1314} Kg7-f6{8}


Still at least this way you swap of queens.

24. Re1-e4{2328} Kf6-e7{50}
25. Rd1-d4{1304} h7-h5{308} {GetClub is up one Pawn.}


25. Rdd4 is a dreadful move (ranked 22/37). 25. f4/f3 or Kf1 are OK.
The king is sat in a ready made back rank mate!

26. b2-b4{3836} a7-a5{1178}


Engine prefers 26. Rd1 (yes the last move was *that* bad)
f4/f3/b3/Kf1 all playable

27. b4-b5{1934} Ra8-c8{58}
28. c2-c3{1996} c7-c5{486}


Again a poor move 28. c3 ranks 16/29 Getclub should still be able to
hold a draw or win here with 20 of the 32 possible moves

29. Rd4-d2{2286} c5-c4{154}


Either 29. Rd1 or bxc6 (en passant) were needed to hold the advantage
which is now wafer thin. Still looks a pretty good draw though.

30. Rd2-d4{2012} Rc8-c5{130}
31. a3-a4{2130} f7-f5{94}


Playing like a complete patzer now.
31. a4 defends b5 but the pawn on a4 is itself en prise.
Only f4 holds on to the game.

32. Re4-e3{3476} Nb6-a4{134}
33. h2-h4{1632} e6-e5{94}
34. f2-f4{1776} e5-e4{132}


Finally f4 but too late to do any good.
Now black has a resource that Helpbot didn't spot in the game
34. ... Nxc3
if 35. RxN exR

34. Rd1 is the best of a bad bunch.
Not worth analysing further. Painful to watch.

Let me know why GetClub lost despite being ahead by 1 Pawn?

What should getclub have done to win this game.


Understand some of the basics of positional play.

Regards,
Martin Brown
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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Old June 12th 08, 04:31 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Two Rooks vs Knight+Rook ending?

Let me know whyGetClublost despite being ahead by 1 Pawn?

What shouldgetclubhave done to win this game.


Understand some of the basics of positional play.


What are the basis of Positional play? I think now only End game is
poor. Please tell me what need to be done in End Game?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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Old June 17th 08, 04:47 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 5,365
Default Two Rooks vs Knight+Rook ending?


it's a loss forGetClub, from either side.


It took me 1 day to understand what you are saying.

Yes Two Rooks are Stronger than Knight+Rook. So GetClub should have
won the game. But incase GetClub had other side still GetClub could
not have won because of poor End Game.

Nowadays a lot of interesting things are happening at GetClub. Just
see the games of Help Bot and Zebediah and you will find a few strange
games.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


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