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Old March 6th 10, 01:13 PM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,soc.culture.french,alt.talk.royalty,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII

An interesting historical concerns Marie Antoinette and her husband
and children. She did not give birth to a child during the first eight
years of her marriage in spite of pressures to do so, but then she got
pregnant six times in rapid succession. It was widely reported and
believed that she had taken a lover, Count Axel von Fersen of Sweden.

After she was executed on the guillotine, her only surviving son would
have become King Louis XVII but he died in prison two years later at
age 10. Many believed that he had not really died but had been rescued
and another boy substituted in his place. More than one hundred
pretenders emerged claiming to be the lost king.

The heart of the boy who died in prison and of his elder brother have
both been preserved. mtDNA tests on the heart of the boy who died in
prison have proven that he was either the son of Marie Antoinette or
else a close relative.

http://www.genebase.com/blog/?p=44

There have apparently been no reported DNA tests to prove whether or
not his father was King Louis XVI. There is a lot of reason to believe
that his real father was Count Axel von Fersen.

A book about this is "Marie Antoinette The Portrait of an Average
Woman". This book has been made into as movie. The 1938 movie stars
Norma Shearer as Marie Antoinette, Tyrone Power as Count Axel de
Fersen, John Barrymore as King Louis XV and Robert Morley as King
Louis XVI.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0030418/

This was one of the most expensive and elaborate movies ever made at
that time, with period costumes. I played the movie last night. It
clearly shows a sexual relationship between Marie Antoinette and Count
Fersen to the extent that censors would allow it at that time.

I am wondering why they do not do a y-chromosome DNA test. It would
not be because it would overthrow the monarchy because the boy left no
descendants.

It would solve an interesting historical question. Could it be part of
a cover-up?

ISBN 4-87187-855-4
978-4-87187-855-5

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...SBN=4871878554

http://www.amazon.com/dp/4871878554


Sincerely,
Sam Sloan
917-507-7226
http://www.SamsOwnBooks.com/shop.aspx

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Old March 6th 10, 06:30 PM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,soc.culture.french,alt.talk.royalty,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 2
Default Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII

On Mar 6, 1:13*pm, samsloan wrote:


It would solve an interesting historical question. Could it be part of
a cover-up?


A cover-up by whom? For what purpose? France ceased to be a monarchy
in 1870 and the last dynasty was Bonaparte not Bourbon.
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Old March 6th 10, 06:58 PM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,soc.culture.british,alt.talk.royalty,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII

On Mar 6, 1:30*pm, Hovite wrote:
On Mar 6, 1:13*pm, samsloan wrote:



It would solve an interesting historical question. Could it be part of
a cover-up?


A cover-up by whom? For what purpose? France ceased to be a monarchy
in 1870 and the last dynasty was Bonaparte not Bourbon.


Who knows?

Somebody on this list suggested that the two sons of Princess Diana
might have different fathers. They do not look much alike. Therefore,
Queen Elizabeth will not agree to a DNA test of them. That would
really be a scandal.

Sam Sloan
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Old March 6th 10, 07:37 PM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,soc.culture.french,alt.talk.royalty,rec.games.chess.politics
rc rc is offline
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Default Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII

On Mar 6, 5:13*am, samsloan wrote:
An interesting historical concerns Marie Antoinette and her husband
and children. She did not give birth to a child during the first eight
years of her marriage in spite of pressures to do so, but then she got
pregnant six times in rapid succession. It was widely reported and
believed that she had taken a lover, Count Axel von Fersen of Sweden.

Sam Sln**************917-507-7226********917-507-7226http://www.SamsOwnBooks.com/shop.aspx


I really can't stand this rumor mongering presented as fact!

It took me less than five minutes to find this information on Marie
Antoinette and Louis XVI.

They did not consummate their marriage until August 1777 according to
a letter she wrote to her mother on August 30, 1777.

Her first child, a daughter, was born in 1778.

Her second child, a son, was born in 1781.

Her third child, a son, was born in 1785.

Her fourth child, a daughter, was born 1786.

With three years between the first and second child and four between
the second and third no one could call this rapid succession.

RC
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Old March 6th 10, 10:40 PM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,soc.culture.french,alt.talk.royalty,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: May 2006
Posts: 14,870
Default Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII

On Mar 6, 2:37*pm, rc wrote:
On Mar 6, 5:13*am, samsloan wrote:

An interesting historical concerns Marie Antoinette and her husband
and children. She did not give birth to a child during the first eight
years of her marriage in spite of pressures to do so, but then she got
pregnant six times in rapid succession. It was widely reported and
believed that she had taken a lover, Count Axel von Fersen of Sweden.


Sam Sln**************917-507-7226********917-507-7226

http://www.SamsOwnBooks.com/shop.aspx

I really can't stand this rumor mongering presented as fact!

It took me less than five minutes to find this information on Marie
Antoinette and Louis XVI.

They did not consummate their marriage until August 1777 according to
a letter she wrote to her mother on August 30, 1777.

Her first child, a daughter, was born in 1778.

Her second child, a son, was born in 1781.

Her third child, a son, was born in 1785.

Her fourth child, a daughter, was born 1786.

With three years between the first and second child and four between
the second and third no one could call this rapid succession.

RC


You did not read my post carefully. I said that she was pregnant 6
times. Six times in 8 years is "rapid succession".

She had a miscarriage in 1780 and a stillborn child on 7 November
1783.

Her last daughter only lived 9 months. Her first son died at age 7 and
her last son at age 10. This left only her first daughter who lived to
age 72!!!!

Sam Sloan


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Old March 6th 10, 11:28 PM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,soc.culture.french,alt.talk.royalty,rec.games.chess.politics
rc rc is offline
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Default Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII


She had a miscarriage in 1780 and a stillborn child on 7 November
1783.

Thank you for the added information. None of these miscarriages
happened before 1777. If she had no pregnancies before 1777, why
should there be questions about the father of her children after that
date? I am no expert on Marie Antoinette, but even if she was a
little air-head, she was princess and queen enough to know her
children had to be her husband's.

RC
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Old March 7th 10, 04:01 AM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,soc.culture.french,alt.talk.royalty,rec.games.chess.politics
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Posts: 14,870
Default Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII

On Mar 6, 6:28*pm, rc wrote:
She had a miscarriage in 1780 and a stillborn child on 7 November
1783.


Thank you for the added information. *None of these miscarriages
happened before 1777. *If she had no pregnancies before 1777, why
should there be questions about the father of her children after that
date? *I am no expert on Marie Antoinette, but even if she was a
little air-head, she was *princess and queen enough to know her
children had to be her husband's.

RC


Marie Antoinette was born on November 2, 1755
The ceremonial wedding of the Dauphin and Dauphine took place on 16
May 1770 at age 14. Their legal marriage was earlier than that, by
proxy.
Her husband, King Louis XVI, apparently did not have intercourse with
her until 1777. On 30 August 1777, the marriage was officially
consummated. (There is a better word for that, but I will not use it
here.)

Her first child was born 19 December 1778. This was her only child who
survived childhood.
The baby's paternity was contested most notably by the comte de
Provence, who had always been open about his desire to replace his
brother as king through various means. However, the child's paternity
was never contested by the king himself, who was close to his
daughter.

Thus, it was eight and a half years between her marriage and the birth
of her first child. During that time, she had only one job, to produce
an heir. I think it natural that any woman, upon finding that her
husband could not give her a child, would find another man to do it.
It is a time-honored tradition. Studies show that today 14% of the
time, the person that somebody thinks is her father is not her real
father. The figure must have been much higher back when there was no
birth control and no DNA testing,

Sam Sloan

ISBN 4-87187-855-4
978-4-87187-855-5

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...SBN=4871878554

http://www.amazon.com/dp/4871878554
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Old March 26th 10, 10:19 PM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,soc.culture.french,alt.talk.royalty,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Nov 2008
Posts: 5
Default Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII

If we dig a little deeper it just gets more interesting.

Did the Hapsburg princess marry into a line of French
*******s?

Perhaps Maria Theresa suspected the truth which was that
Louis XIV and his brother Philippe were in fact fathered by
none other than Cardinal Mazarin! The Hapsburgs were at war
with France at the time.

Louis XIII was far more interested in war, hunting and
stable boys to bother with Anne of Austria, and her
late-in-life pregnancy came as a surprise to all and sundry.

Perhaps the DNA investigations might be extended to include
the specimens from Richelieu and Mazarin. Or even one of
the stable boys!

The French are all *******s anyway!




"samsloan" wrote in message
...
An interesting historical concerns Marie Antoinette and
her husband
and children. She did not give birth to a child during the
first eight
years of her marriage in spite of pressures to do so, but
then she got
pregnant six times in rapid succession. It was widely
reported and
believed that she had taken a lover, Count Axel von Fersen
of Sweden.

After she was executed on the guillotine, her only
surviving son would
have become King Louis XVII but he died in prison two
years later at
age 10. Many believed that he had not really died but had
been rescued
and another boy substituted in his place. More than one
hundred
pretenders emerged claiming to be the lost king.

The heart of the boy who died in prison and of his elder
brother have
both been preserved. mtDNA tests on the heart of the boy
who died in
prison have proven that he was either the son of Marie
Antoinette or
else a close relative.

http://www.genebase.com/blog/?p=44

There have apparently been no reported DNA tests to prove
whether or
not his father was King Louis XVI. There is a lot of
reason to believe
that his real father was Count Axel von Fersen.

A book about this is "Marie Antoinette The Portrait of an
Average
Woman". This book has been made into as movie. The 1938
movie stars
Norma Shearer as Marie Antoinette, Tyrone Power as Count
Axel de
Fersen, John Barrymore as King Louis XV and Robert Morley
as King
Louis XVI.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0030418/

This was one of the most expensive and elaborate movies
ever made at
that time, with period costumes. I played the movie last
night. It
clearly shows a sexual relationship between Marie
Antoinette and Count
Fersen to the extent that censors would allow it at that
time.

I am wondering why they do not do a y-chromosome DNA test.
It would
not be because it would overthrow the monarchy because the
boy left no
descendants.

It would solve an interesting historical question. Could
it be part of
a cover-up?

ISBN 4-87187-855-4
978-4-87187-855-5

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...SBN=4871878554

http://www.amazon.com/dp/4871878554


Sincerely,
Sam Sloan
917-507-7226
http://www.SamsOwnBooks.com/shop.aspx



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Old March 27th 10, 02:43 AM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,soc.culture.french,alt.talk.royalty,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 3
Default Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII

And all this time I thought it was one of the Three Musketeers who
fathered Anne's twin sons....

CE Wood

On Mar 26, 3:19*pm, "Peter Jason" wrote:
If we dig a little deeper it just gets more interesting.

Did the Hapsburg princess marry into a line of French
*******s?

Perhaps Maria Theresa suspected the truth which was that
Louis XIV and his brother Philippe were in fact fathered by
none other than Cardinal Mazarin! *The Hapsburgs were at war
with France at the time.

Louis XIII was far more interested in war, hunting and
stable boys to bother with Anne of Austria, and her
late-in-life pregnancy came as a surprise to all and sundry.

Perhaps the DNA investigations might be extended to include
the specimens from Richelieu and Mazarin. *Or even one of
the stable boys!

The French are all *******s anyway!

"samsloan" wrote in message

...

An interesting historical concerns Marie Antoinette and
her husband
and children. She did not give birth to a child during the
first eight
years of her marriage in spite of pressures to do so, but
then she got
pregnant six times in rapid succession. It was widely
reported and
believed that she had taken a lover, Count Axel von Fersen
of Sweden.


After she was executed on the guillotine, her only
surviving son would
have become King Louis XVII but he died in prison two
years later at
age 10. Many believed that he had not really died but had
been rescued
and another boy substituted in his place. More than one
hundred
pretenders emerged claiming to be the lost king.


The heart of the boy who died in prison and of his elder
brother have
both been preserved. *mtDNA tests on the heart of the boy
who died in
prison have proven that he was either the son of Marie
Antoinette or
else a close relative.


http://www.genebase.com/blog/?p=44


There have apparently been no reported DNA tests to prove
whether or
not his father was King Louis XVI. There is a lot of
reason to believe
that his real father was Count Axel von Fersen.


A book about this is "Marie Antoinette The Portrait of an
Average
Woman". This book has been made into as movie. The 1938
movie stars
Norma Shearer as Marie Antoinette, Tyrone Power as Count
Axel de
Fersen, John Barrymore as King Louis XV and Robert Morley
as King
Louis XVI.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0030418/


This was one of the most expensive and elaborate movies
ever made at
that time, with period costumes. I played the movie last
night. It
clearly shows a sexual relationship between Marie
Antoinette and Count
Fersen to the extent that censors would allow it at that
time.


I am wondering why they do not do a y-chromosome DNA test.
It would
not be because it would overthrow the monarchy because the
boy left no
descendants.


It would solve an interesting historical question. Could
it be part of
a cover-up?


ISBN *4-87187-855-4
978-4-87187-855-5


http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo....asp?ISBN=4871....


http://www.amazon.com/dp/4871878554


Sincerely,
Sam Sloan
917-507-7226
http://www.SamsOwnBooks.com/shop.aspx


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Old March 27th 10, 02:51 AM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,soc.culture.french,alt.talk.royalty,rec.games.chess.politics
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First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Nov 2008
Posts: 5
Default Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII

My God! How did that wicked woman fit them all in? The
Musketeers; I have my suspicions about D'Artagnan now!

"CE Wood" wrote in message
...
And all this time I thought it was one of the Three
Musketeers who
fathered Anne's twin sons....

CE Wood

On Mar 26, 3:19 pm, "Peter Jason" wrote:
If we dig a little deeper it just gets more interesting.

Did the Hapsburg princess marry into a line of French
*******s?

Perhaps Maria Theresa suspected the truth which was that
Louis XIV and his brother Philippe were in fact fathered
by
none other than Cardinal Mazarin! The Hapsburgs were at
war
with France at the time.

Louis XIII was far more interested in war, hunting and
stable boys to bother with Anne of Austria, and her
late-in-life pregnancy came as a surprise to all and
sundry.

Perhaps the DNA investigations might be extended to
include
the specimens from Richelieu and Mazarin. Or even one of
the stable boys!

The French are all *******s anyway!

"samsloan" wrote in message

...

An interesting historical concerns Marie Antoinette and
her husband
and children. She did not give birth to a child during
the
first eight
years of her marriage in spite of pressures to do so,
but
then she got
pregnant six times in rapid succession. It was widely
reported and
believed that she had taken a lover, Count Axel von
Fersen
of Sweden.


After she was executed on the guillotine, her only
surviving son would
have become King Louis XVII but he died in prison two
years later at
age 10. Many believed that he had not really died but
had
been rescued
and another boy substituted in his place. More than one
hundred
pretenders emerged claiming to be the lost king.


The heart of the boy who died in prison and of his elder
brother have
both been preserved. mtDNA tests on the heart of the boy
who died in
prison have proven that he was either the son of Marie
Antoinette or
else a close relative.


http://www.genebase.com/blog/?p=44


There have apparently been no reported DNA tests to
prove
whether or
not his father was King Louis XVI. There is a lot of
reason to believe
that his real father was Count Axel von Fersen.


A book about this is "Marie Antoinette The Portrait of
an
Average
Woman". This book has been made into as movie. The 1938
movie stars
Norma Shearer as Marie Antoinette, Tyrone Power as Count
Axel de
Fersen, John Barrymore as King Louis XV and Robert
Morley
as King
Louis XVI.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0030418/


This was one of the most expensive and elaborate movies
ever made at
that time, with period costumes. I played the movie last
night. It
clearly shows a sexual relationship between Marie
Antoinette and Count
Fersen to the extent that censors would allow it at that
time.


I am wondering why they do not do a y-chromosome DNA
test.
It would
not be because it would overthrow the monarchy because
the
boy left no
descendants.


It would solve an interesting historical question. Could
it be part of
a cover-up?


ISBN 4-87187-855-4
978-4-87187-855-5


http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo....asp?ISBN=4871...


http://www.amazon.com/dp/4871878554


Sincerely,
Sam Sloan
917-507-7226
http://www.SamsOwnBooks.com/shop.aspx



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