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Old December 5th 11, 10:19 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default The Art of Positional Play in Chess by Samuel Reshevsky as toldto Burt Hochberg

On Dec 4, 4:46*pm, Taylor Kingston wrote:

On Dec 3, 7:34*pm, spamsloan wrote:


Fischer is quoted as saying that Reshevsky was the strongest player in
the world and would have easily defeated World Champion Botvinnik in a
match.


* There you go exaggerating again, Sam. The exact quote, from a 1964
issue of the magazine Chessworld, is:

* "For a period of ten years — between 1946 and 1956 — Reshevsky was
probably the best chess player in the world. I feel sure that had he
played a match with Botvinnik during that time, he would have won and
been world champion."

* Neither the word word "easily" nor anything like it appears. It's
also worth mentioning that Botvinnik had a lifetime score of +5 -2 =7
against Reshevsky, including a +4 -2 =5 record during the 1946-56
span.



Given Fischer's bloated ego, it is not inconceiveable that the
cutoff year '1956' might refer to the date after which he considered
himself to have taken over as the world's best chessplayer (those
damned Russians don't count for they are all cheaters, ya know).

Here is a link to ten-year performance graph which is but two years
off from exactly matching the stated period:
http://www.chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/S...00000000010100

In this graph Botvinnik clearly dominates until 1950, when Bronstein
takes over as top dog for about two years.

In early 1952 there is a vitual tie between Botvinnik, Bronstein,
Reshevsky and Keres (at a level of performance well below that
achieved earlier by Botvinnik). Later that same year, Reshevsky edges
out the competition by a small margin.

In 1953 on this graph, we see Reshevsky, Botvinnik, and later in the
year, Smyslov in a slugfest over the pole position. Also worthy of
note is Najdorf, a man whose impressive chessmetrics career graph
unfortunately was overshadowed by the Himalayan-mountainesque blue
line belonging to Botvinnik.

In 1954, the high white line representing Reshevsky begins its
gradual decline... with Smyslov (and Keres) in the ascent and
Botvinnik still hanging tough.

Some time later Reshevsky was to defeat Fischer in match play by
showing up to play more consistently. Well, this just goes to show
that it was possible to beat Fischer --despite what some pundits had
claimed. The trick was not to try and outplay him over the board,
but rather to get him to stay away from the board altogether so as to
win by forfeit.
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Old December 6th 11, 03:28 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default The Art of Positional Play in Chess by Samuel Reshevsky as toldto Burt Hochberg

On Dec 5, 2:19*pm, The Master wrote:

* *Given Fischer's bloated ego, it is not inconceiveable that the
cutoff year '1956' might refer to the date after which he considered
himself to have taken over as the world's best chessplayer (those
damned Russians don't count for they are all cheaters, ya know).


I am sure that "Master" is correct, that the cutoff date of 1956 is
due to the fact that that is the date when Fischer himself became the
strongest player in the world.

Sam Sloan
In Guangzhou China
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Old December 6th 11, 04:15 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default The Art of Positional Play in Chess by Samuel Reshevsky as toldto Burt Hochberg

On Dec 5, 7:28*pm, samsloan wrote:
On Dec 5, 2:19*pm, The Master wrote:

* *Given Fischer's bloated ego, it is not inconceiveable that the
cutoff year '1956' might refer to the date after which he considered
himself to have taken over as the world's best chessplayer (those
damned Russians don't count for they are all cheaters, ya know).


I am sure that "Master" is correct, that the cutoff date of 1956 is
due to the fact that that is the date when Fischer himself became the
strongest player in the world.


1956? Rrrriiiiight. In his 1956 tournaments Fischer had such
tirumphs as coming 21st in the US Amateur Championship, and =8th-12th
in the Canadian Open. No one else could possibly have done better.
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Old December 6th 11, 04:44 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default The Art of Positional Play in Chess by Samuel Reshevsky as toldto Burt Hochberg

On Dec 5, 8:15*pm, Taylor Kingston wrote:
On Dec 5, 7:28*pm, samsloan wrote:

On Dec 5, 2:19*pm, The Master wrote:


* *Given Fischer's bloated ego, it is not inconceiveable that the
cutoff year '1956' might refer to the date after which he considered
himself to have taken over as the world's best chessplayer (those
damned Russians don't count for they are all cheaters, ya know).


I am sure that "Master" is correct, that the cutoff date of 1956 is
due to the fact that that is the date when Fischer himself became the
strongest player in the world.


* 1956? Rrrriiiiight. In his 1956 tournaments Fischer had such
tirumphs as coming 21st in the US Amateur Championship, and =8th-12th
in the Canadian Open. No one else could possibly have done better.


That was the beginning of 1956.

By the end of 1956 he had finished second in the Eastern States Open
in Washington DC tied with Lombardy, Rossolimo and Feuerstein and
ahead of Sam Sloan and then after that he was invited to the Rosenwald
Tournament where he won "The Game of the Century" defeating Donald
Byrne.

!956 was his breakthrough year. However, the world did not know it yet
until he won the US Championship the following year.

Sam Sloan
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Old December 6th 11, 06:29 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default The Art of Positional Play in Chess by Samuel Reshevsky as toldto Burt Hochberg

On Dec 5, 11:44*pm, spamsloan wrote:

On Dec 5, 8:15*pm, Taylor Kingston wrote:

On Dec 5, 7:28*pm, spamsloan wrote:


On Dec 5, 2:19*pm, The Master wrote:


* *Given Fischer's bloated ego, it is not inconceiveable that the
cutoff year '1956' might refer to the date after which he considered
himself to have taken over as the world's best chessplayer (those
damned Russians don't count for they are all cheaters, ya know).


I am sure that "Master" is correct, that the cutoff date of 1956 is
due to the fact that that is the date when Fischer himself became the
strongest player in the world.


* 1956? Rrrriiiiight. In his 1956 tournaments Fischer had such
tirumphs as coming 21st in the US Amateur Championship, and =8th-12th
in the Canadian Open. No one else could possibly have done better.


That was the beginning of 1956.

By the end of 1956 he had finished second in the Eastern States Open
in Washington DC tied with Lombardy, Rossolimo and Feuerstein and
ahead of Sam Sloan and then after that he was invited to the Rosenwald
Tournament where he won "The Game of the Century" defeating Donald
Byrne.

!956 was his breakthrough year. However, the world did not know it yet
until he won the US Championship the following year.



Considering what I recall from having read approximately the first
half of Frank Brady's most recent book about Fischer, it may be
possible to rule out Mikhail Tal as taking over --in Fischer's mind,
that is-- as the world's number one chessplayer in 1956 from
Reshevsky. According to Brady's account, Bobby seemed to consider Tal
--like other Russian chessplayers-- to be a cheater. Well, who really
knows what went on in Bobby's goofy mind?

I've been waiting for decades to hve a 'breakthrough year' like
Fischer did in 1956, finishing ahead of the likes of Sam Sloan or
Nakamura or IM Innes or heck, even Mike Murray or Stan Booz would do.
I'm told that a 'game of the century' event might be possible against
someone like Art Bisguire these days, if he is still alive, and if I
were to play the best game of my life and if he were to fall asleep at
the board and then lose on time....


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Old December 6th 11, 06:30 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default The Art of Positional Play in Chess by Samuel Reshevsky as toldto Burt Hochberg

On Dec 5, 8:44*pm, samsloan wrote:
On Dec 5, 8:15*pm, Taylor Kingston wrote:





On Dec 5, 7:28*pm, samsloan wrote:


On Dec 5, 2:19*pm, The Master wrote:


* *Given Fischer's bloated ego, it is not inconceiveable that the
cutoff year '1956' might refer to the date after which he considered
himself to have taken over as the world's best chessplayer (those
damned Russians don't count for they are all cheaters, ya know).


I am sure that "Master" is correct, that the cutoff date of 1956 is
due to the fact that that is the date when Fischer himself became the
strongest player in the world.


* 1956? Rrrriiiiight. In his 1956 tournaments Fischer had such
tirumphs as coming 21st in the US Amateur Championship, and =8th-12th
in the Canadian Open. No one else could possibly have done better.


That was the beginning of 1956.


Not so. According to Brady's bio the Amateur Ch was played in May,
and the Canadian Open in late summer.

By the end of 1956 he had finished second in the Eastern States Open
in Washington DC tied with Lombardy, Rossolimo and Feuerstein and
ahead of Sam Sloan and then after that he was invited to the Rosenwald
Tournament where he won "The Game of the Century" defeating Donald
Byrne.


"Game of the Century" notwithstanding, Bobby finished 8th in that
event. Please tell us, Sam, how that makes him "strongest in the
world."

!956 was his breakthrough year. However, the world did not know it yet
until he won the US Championship the following year.


Certainly 1956 was a year in which Fischer made great progress and
showed he was getting ready for the big time, but by no means can he
be considered the strongest player in the world at that point. That
was still at least ten years away.

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Old December 6th 11, 09:15 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default The Art of Positional Play in Chess by Samuel Reshevsky as toldto Burt Hochberg

On Dec 6, 10:30*am, Taylor Kingston wrote:
On Dec 5, 8:44*pm, samsloan wrote:









On Dec 5, 8:15*pm, Taylor Kingston wrote:


On Dec 5, 7:28*pm, samsloan wrote:


On Dec 5, 2:19*pm, The Master wrote:


* *Given Fischer's bloated ego, it is not inconceiveable that the
cutoff year '1956' might refer to the date after which he considered
himself to have taken over as the world's best chessplayer (those
damned Russians don't count for they are all cheaters, ya know).


I am sure that "Master" is correct, that the cutoff date of 1956 is
due to the fact that that is the date when Fischer himself became the
strongest player in the world.


* 1956? Rrrriiiiight. In his 1956 tournaments Fischer had such
tirumphs as coming 21st in the US Amateur Championship, and =8th-12th
in the Canadian Open. No one else could possibly have done better.


That was the beginning of 1956.


* Not so. According to Brady's bio the Amateur Ch was played in May,
and the Canadian Open in late summer.

By the end of 1956 he had finished second in the Eastern States Open
in Washington DC tied with Lombardy, Rossolimo and Feuerstein and
ahead of Sam Sloan and then after that he was invited to the Rosenwald
Tournament where he won "The Game of the Century" defeating Donald
Byrne.


* "Game of the Century" notwithstanding, Bobby finished 8th in that
event. Please tell us, Sam, how that makes him "strongest in the
world."

!956 was his breakthrough year. However, the world did not know it yet
until he won the US Championship the following year.


* Certainly 1956 was a year in which Fischer made great progress and
showed he was getting ready for the big time, but by no means can he
be considered the strongest player in the world at that point. That
was still at least ten years away.


Remember that I personally knew Bobby Fischer.

He was definitely the strongest player in the world by 1962. His
failure to win Curacao 1962 was a big failure in the eyes of the
world.

Just failing to win one tournament does not mean that he was not the
strongest. Magnus Carlson does not win every time but he is widely
regarded as the strongest.

1956 is too early but I am sure he felt that he was the strongest
player in the world by 1958 or 1959, possibly by 1957.

I discussed this subject with him but I cannot remember his exact
words.

Sam Sloan
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Old December 6th 11, 11:27 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default The Art of Positional Play in Chess by Samuel Reshevsky as toldto Burt Hochberg

On Dec 6, 1:15*pm, samsloan wrote:
On Dec 6, 10:30*am, Taylor Kingston wrote:


* 1956? Rrrriiiiight. In his 1956 tournaments Fischer had such
tirumphs as coming 21st in the US Amateur Championship, and =8th-12th
in the Canadian Open. No one else could possibly have done better.


That was the beginning of 1956.


* Not so. According to Brady's bio the Amateur Ch was played in May,
and the Canadian Open in late summer.


By the end of 1956 he had finished second in the Eastern States Open
in Washington DC tied with Lombardy, Rossolimo and Feuerstein and
ahead of Sam Sloan and then after that he was invited to the Rosenwald
Tournament where he won "The Game of the Century" defeating Donald
Byrne.


* "Game of the Century" notwithstanding, Bobby finished 8th in that
event. Please tell us, Sam, how that makes him "strongest in the
world."


!956 was his breakthrough year. However, the world did not know it yet
until he won the US Championship the following year.


* Certainly 1956 was a year in which Fischer made great progress and
showed he was getting ready for the big time, but by no means can he
be considered the strongest player in the world at that point. That
was still at least ten years away.


Remember that I personally knew Bobby Fischer.


So what? It is not at all necessary to know someone personally to
assess their chess strength.

He was definitely the strongest player in the world by 1962. His
failure to win Curacao 1962 was a big failure in the eyes of the
world.


Yes, a failure that strongly indicates he was not yet strongest in
the world.

Just failing to win one tournament does not mean that he was not the
strongest.


So what? Failing to win the great majority of his tournaments can
hardly be used as an argument that he /was/ the strongest.
In the period 1957-62, Fischer's international tournament record
shows only three 1st places out of 11 events — at Mar del Plata 1961,
Reykjavik 1961, and Stockholm 1962 — along with one 2nd, two
=3rd-4ths, one sole 4th, one =4th-7th, two =5th-6ths, and one 13th.
And he stood only even with Reshevsky when he withdrew from their 1961
match.

And in the period 1963-66, Fischer did not win a single
international tournment, and he played in only two. You cannot claim
to be the best when you don't play and prove it.

1956 is too early but I am sure he felt that he was the strongest
player in the world by 1958 or 1959, possibly by 1957.


Nonsense, Sam. If you replace the fives in your above sentence with
sixes, then I will agree. But not in the 1950s. No way.

I discussed this subject with him but I cannot remember his exact
words.


A chess player does not establish his superiority by discussion.
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Old December 6th 11, 11:55 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default The Art of Positional Play in Chess by Samuel Reshevsky as toldto Burt Hochberg

On Dec 6, 1:15*pm, samsloan wrote:

1956 is too early but I am sure he felt that he was the strongest
player in the world by 1958 or 1959, possibly by 1957.


What Fischer felt and what the facts bear out are two different
things. I am not arguing here over what Fischer thought or felt, but
over his actual chess record.
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Old December 7th 11, 12:01 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,rec.games.chess.politics,alt.chess
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Default The Art of Positional Play in Chess by Samuel Reshevsky as told to Burt Hochberg




I discussed this subject with him but I cannot remember his exact
words.


A chess player does not establish his superiority by discussion.


Not even by discussion with Sam (Dung Bi Tel) Sloan?
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