Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old April 20th 04, 09:03 PM
The Masked Bishop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Let's say I'm wrong about the ICA

Ok, for argument's sake, let's say I'm totally wrong about the ICA.
Let's say it's NOT a brain-dead organization that soaks tournament
organizers and scares away potential new chess players in Illinois.

Let's say what its supporters are saying: that it's an under-manned
organization with a noble mission, that it's wonderful for Illinois
chess, and that all it needs are about 10 volunteers to make thing hum
again.

Ok, so we are saying that. Now what? Wait for these 10 volunteers to
fall from the sky? Because they sure aren't just going to magically
appear. What, if anything, is current ICA leadership doing to get these
people? I can tell you what they are NOT doing:

1) They are not presenting any kind of plan or vision to existing
membership on how to get out of their current rut.

2) They are not entertaining any cost-cutting measures, in light of new
technologies, such as providing a digital-only Bulletin and eliminating
postal mailings of tournament announcements.

3) They are not using these discussion boards to solicit help. They are
not providing anyone a list of the kinds of help they need. They need 10
people...to do what?

4) They are not using their website for much of anything. Just about
every page is blank. There is no appeal for help, no message from
leadership, nothing.

5) They are not considering a reduction in dues, or offering a
Bulletin-free membership, in an effort to drum up more members.

6) They are not providing basic services to their existing members, such
as a timely bulletin, a membership card, or an e-mail reminder of
impending expiration.

7) They are not doing ANYTHING. What they ARE doing is carping at anyone
who criticizes them, and whining about how over-worked and under-staffed
they are. It's all problems, never solutions. Who is Larry Cohen? Why
isn't he, the President, trying to save the ICA?

TMB


  #2   Report Post  
Old April 20th 04, 09:53 PM
Kevin L. Bachler
 
Posts: n/a
Default Let's say I'm wrong about the ICA

In article , The Masked Bishop
says...

Ok, for argument's sake, let's say I'm totally wrong about the ICA.
Let's say it's NOT a brain-dead organization that soaks tournament
organizers and scares away potential new chess players in Illinois.

Let's say what its supporters are saying: that it's an under-manned
organization with a noble mission, that it's wonderful for Illinois
chess, and that all it needs are about 10 volunteers to make thing hum
again.

Ok, so we are saying that. Now what? Wait for these 10 volunteers to
fall from the sky? Because they sure aren't just going to magically
appear. What, if anything, is current ICA leadership doing to get these
people? I can tell you what they are NOT doing:

1) They are not presenting any kind of plan or vision to existing
membership on how to get out of their current rut.

Agreed


2) They are not entertaining any cost-cutting measures, in light of new
technologies, such as providing a digital-only Bulletin and eliminating
postal mailings of tournament announcements.


Disagree. They have implemented so cost-cutting measures (some may have even
been bad.) And we already know that a digital-only bulletin is a bad idea,
irrespective of how much you like it. (You sound like Haas on this issue --
let's call it the Metro Digital Bulletin.)

You need to note -- I would LOVE for a digital bulletin to work. It doesn't
yet.


3) They are not using these discussion boards to solicit help. They are
not providing anyone a list of the kinds of help they need. They need 10
people...to do what?


Agreed.

4) They are not using their website for much of anything. Just about
every page is blank. There is no appeal for help, no message from
leadership, nothing.


Agreed. Sevan got off to a good start, and I am glad that he took it over from
me because I didn't have time to maintain it anymore, and it showed.

But why not volunteer to write something for Sevan rather than just complain
that it is blank?

You know -- on the left hand light a candle, on the right hand curse the
darkness.

5) They are not considering a reduction in dues, or offering a
Bulletin-free membership, in an effort to drum up more members.


Nor should they. They dues support the magazine. It is a key to the
organization. The mag does need to be strengthened, but a bulletin-free mag is
a bad idea right now. Perhaps after ways appear to get info onto the website it
would make more sense.

6) They are not providing basic services to their existing members, such
as a timely bulletin, a membership card, or an e-mail reminder of
impending expiration.


The Bulletin is fairly timely. Otherwise agreed.


7) They are not doing ANYTHING. What they ARE doing is carping at anyone
who criticizes them, and whining about how over-worked and under-staffed
they are. It's all problems, never solutions. Who is Larry Cohen? Why
isn't he, the President, trying to save the ICA?


He is. Why do you assume he isn't?

And what officer has carped at anyone?


TMB



Kevin L. Bachler

  #3   Report Post  
Old April 20th 04, 11:41 PM
lawilson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Let's say I'm wrong about the ICA

2) They are not entertaining any cost-cutting measures, in light of new
technologies, such as providing a digital-only Bulletin and eliminating
postal mailings of tournament announcements.


Disagree. They have implemented so cost-cutting measures (some may have

even
been bad.) And we already know that a digital-only bulletin is a bad idea,
irrespective of how much you like it. (You sound like Haas on this issue --
let's call it the Metro Digital Bulletin.)

You need to note -- I would LOVE for a digital bulletin to work. It

doesn't
yet.
----------
I realize that my little newsletter for Chess in Chicago isn't anything
special, but it attracts a heck of a lot of people. I have people from
Sweden, the Netherlands, etc who subscribe to it (why? I have NO idea).
The Newsletter, combined with a Forum, has tripled the amount of web hits I
get monthly. If I was in this for the money I'd be making a pretty penny
now (I just have one sponsor link, Chess Xpress Ratings, because I like
their service). Of course, what I do is cater to kids/parents vs. adult
players, so perhaps it's not appropriate to compare my format to the ICB,
but my point is that an electronic version WOULD be a great asset. For the
first 3-6 issues, I'd simply make the ICB a PDF online, and watch the web
hits to see how many people download it. The print edition would continue.
Then, I'd offer the option when someone's membership is set to expire to get
the online edition at half price vs. getting a magazine, or they can still
get the print edition. I'm sure you'd end up with more going for an online
edition.

Also, if Sevan got even more creative with the site, he could even make a
"Web Edition" of select articles in the print edition. For example, say
that you do an interview with FM Chow. You'd have the interview in the
magazine. At the end, you can have a caption, "For more details and color
pictures, etc, go to www.ilchess.org/chowinterview etc, or a game he
annotated could be available online to view and play through (thanks to Matt
for showing me how to do that). I kind of got that idea from Oprah. She
has an "After the Show" special on the Oxygen network. So if you want more
details that couldn't fit in the hour show, you can tune in later for the
full details. I use this method with my work website for the school I work
for, and I use it in the Chess in Chicago newsletter.

I know that it comes down to the volunteer problem, which I'm sure the
replies to this will so kindly indicate. Most of the things I mentioned
aren't hard. I have Adobe Acrobat. If the magazine was sent to me in an
electronic form I could convert it to PDF for the webmaster, no problem. I
look forward to the responses to perhaps my longest post ever.

lawilson
www.chessinchicago.org


"Kevin L. Bachler" wrote in message
...
In article , The Masked

Bishop
says...

Ok, for argument's sake, let's say I'm totally wrong about the ICA.
Let's say it's NOT a brain-dead organization that soaks tournament
organizers and scares away potential new chess players in Illinois.

Let's say what its supporters are saying: that it's an under-manned
organization with a noble mission, that it's wonderful for Illinois
chess, and that all it needs are about 10 volunteers to make thing hum
again.

Ok, so we are saying that. Now what? Wait for these 10 volunteers to
fall from the sky? Because they sure aren't just going to magically
appear. What, if anything, is current ICA leadership doing to get these
people? I can tell you what they are NOT doing:

1) They are not presenting any kind of plan or vision to existing
membership on how to get out of their current rut.

Agreed


2) They are not entertaining any cost-cutting measures, in light of new
technologies, such as providing a digital-only Bulletin and eliminating
postal mailings of tournament announcements.


Disagree. They have implemented so cost-cutting measures (some may have

even
been bad.) And we already know that a digital-only bulletin is a bad

idea,
irrespective of how much you like it. (You sound like Haas on this

issue --
let's call it the Metro Digital Bulletin.)

You need to note -- I would LOVE for a digital bulletin to work. It

doesn't
yet.


3) They are not using these discussion boards to solicit help. They are
not providing anyone a list of the kinds of help they need. They need 10
people...to do what?


Agreed.

4) They are not using their website for much of anything. Just about
every page is blank. There is no appeal for help, no message from
leadership, nothing.


Agreed. Sevan got off to a good start, and I am glad that he took it over

from
me because I didn't have time to maintain it anymore, and it showed.

But why not volunteer to write something for Sevan rather than just

complain
that it is blank?

You know -- on the left hand light a candle, on the right hand curse the
darkness.

5) They are not considering a reduction in dues, or offering a
Bulletin-free membership, in an effort to drum up more members.


Nor should they. They dues support the magazine. It is a key to the
organization. The mag does need to be strengthened, but a bulletin-free

mag is
a bad idea right now. Perhaps after ways appear to get info onto the

website it
would make more sense.

6) They are not providing basic services to their existing members, such
as a timely bulletin, a membership card, or an e-mail reminder of
impending expiration.


The Bulletin is fairly timely. Otherwise agreed.


7) They are not doing ANYTHING. What they ARE doing is carping at anyone
who criticizes them, and whining about how over-worked and under-staffed
they are. It's all problems, never solutions. Who is Larry Cohen? Why
isn't he, the President, trying to save the ICA?


He is. Why do you assume he isn't?

And what officer has carped at anyone?


TMB



Kevin L. Bachler



  #4   Report Post  
Old April 21st 04, 03:13 AM
Kevin L. Bachler
 
Posts: n/a
Default Let's say I'm wrong about the ICA

In article , lawilson says...
SNIP

You need to note -- I would LOVE for a digital bulletin to work. It

doesn't
yet.
----------
I realize that my little newsletter for Chess in Chicago isn't anything
special, but it attracts a heck of a lot of people. I have people from
Sweden, the Netherlands, etc who subscribe to it (why? I have NO idea).
The Newsletter, combined with a Forum, has tripled the amount of web hits I
get monthly. If I was in this for the money I'd be making a pretty penny
now (I just have one sponsor link, Chess Xpress Ratings, because I like
their service). Of course, what I do is cater to kids/parents vs. adult
players, so perhaps it's not appropriate to compare my format to the ICB,
but my point is that an electronic version WOULD be a great asset.


We had an electronic version over 2 years ago. We put the ICB online as a PDF.
We also put the games online as PGN. There were almost no hits. The number of
hits would be greater today. (One problem is sorting out the number of hits
from the number of actual participants.) The web access is much better for kids
and adults (Cochess used to do better than ICA.)

But the fact of the matter is that people still like the hardcopy to read in the
bathroom and go over the games. Will it evolve? Absolutely. Has it currently
evolved to the point where the ICB isn't needed in hardcopy?

Not at all.

I use the web A LOT. Much more than 95% of the people I know. I use it more
than my high school chess students, and more than most of the people at work.
And I find that even I still prefer the ICB in hardcover. It's just too hard to
take my pc with me whereever I want to go.

I completely understand TMB's point. But the reality is that electronic
publishing has not taken off. It will someday, but it hasn't so far.

Kevin L. Bachler

  #5   Report Post  
Old April 21st 04, 03:47 AM
The Masked Bishop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Let's say I'm wrong about the ICA

Kevin L. Bachler wrote:

And I find that even I still prefer the ICB in hardcover.


Nothing is stopping you from printing out a digital copy on your
printer. You can even get inventive and three-hole punch it and put it
in a folder, if you want that "book" feel.

The point is not to kill the joy of a journal in the hand. The point is
to say goodbye to the enormous cost of printing and mailing what is
essentially a computer printout to membership, when they can print it
out themselves.

Digital copies also are easier to store, and search. There are no
logical arguments for producing a print journal, Kevin, especially when
membership is able to print out their own copy. The ONLY argument you
could offer would be if a member doesn't have a computer and/or decent
Internet speed. Fine, for a few extra bucks, the office will mail them a
printout.

Now let's move on to a real issue. Pun intended.

TMB





  #6   Report Post  
Old April 21st 04, 03:55 AM
lawilson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Let's say I'm wrong about the ICA

Wow, I expected more detailed replies to my enormous message. I guess I'm
not as important as I thought (LOL). Take care guys.

lawilson

"The Masked Bishop" wrote in message
...
Kevin L. Bachler wrote:

And I find that even I still prefer the ICB in hardcover.


Nothing is stopping you from printing out a digital copy on your
printer. You can even get inventive and three-hole punch it and put it
in a folder, if you want that "book" feel.

The point is not to kill the joy of a journal in the hand. The point is
to say goodbye to the enormous cost of printing and mailing what is
essentially a computer printout to membership, when they can print it
out themselves.

Digital copies also are easier to store, and search. There are no
logical arguments for producing a print journal, Kevin, especially when
membership is able to print out their own copy. The ONLY argument you
could offer would be if a member doesn't have a computer and/or decent
Internet speed. Fine, for a few extra bucks, the office will mail them a
printout.

Now let's move on to a real issue. Pun intended.

TMB





  #7   Report Post  
Old April 21st 04, 04:31 AM
The Masked Bishop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Let's say I'm wrong about the ICA

lawilson wrote:

Wow, I expected more detailed replies to my enormous message. I guess I'm
not as important as I thought (LOL).


You forget, LA Law, that this is not a place to be productive. This is a
carping ground.

Ok, so I'm spent on this. I came, I bitched, I was slammed. Fine--I'll
shut-up, and watch the process work itself out. Like I said already, I
don't think the ICA is doing diddly-**** to help itself out of its
problems. Indeed, the most energy I've seen out of anyone regarding the
ICA has been these fervid responses to my poor quibblings.

If a fraction of that energy could be spent actually soliciting real
help, actually using the website to find volunteers, maybe things would
change. If current leadership (who, volunteer or not, have SOME kind of
responsibility to lead), actually make an effort to craft a vision or
even a plea for help, maybe the ICA will get out of the big muddy.

So, make book on which comes first: Larry Cohen's ICA website letter to
membership, or Kingsack's digital proof of his real identity? Get the
popcorn...

Cheers, TMB
  #8   Report Post  
Old April 21st 04, 04:36 AM
Ron Suarez
 
Posts: n/a
Default Let's say I'm wrong about the ICA

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:55:50 GMT, "lawilson"
wrote:

Wow, I expected more detailed replies to my enormous message. I guess I'm
not as important as I thought (LOL). Take care guys.

lawilson


I'm sorry. I was going to post a reply when my neighbor stopped by to
chat about a neighborhood issue. When I got back to the computer you
had reposted.

Good point. How do I go about seeing ot getting you stuff? I need to
go back and find a link to your site. Maybe you would be so kind as
to repost it.

Thanks,
Ron Suarez
  #9   Report Post  
Old April 21st 04, 05:23 AM
lawilson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Let's say I'm wrong about the ICA

Hi Ron,

Here's my original message with my site at the bottom:

I realize that my little newsletter for Chess in Chicago isn't anything
special, but it attracts a heck of a lot of people. I have people from
Sweden, the Netherlands, etc who subscribe to it (why? I have NO idea).
The Newsletter, combined with a Forum, has tripled the amount of web hits I
get monthly. If I was in this for the money I'd be making a pretty penny
now (I just have one sponsor link, Chess Xpress Ratings, because I like
their service). Of course, what I do is cater to kids/parents vs. adult
players, so perhaps it's not appropriate to compare my format to the ICB,
but my point is that an electronic version WOULD be a great asset. For the
first 3-6 issues, I'd simply make the ICB a PDF online, and watch the web
hits to see how many people download it. The print edition would continue.
Then, I'd offer the option when someone's membership is set to expire to get
the online edition at half price vs. getting a magazine, or they can still
get the print edition. I'm sure you'd end up with more going for an online
edition.

Also, if Sevan got even more creative with the site, he could even make a
"Web Edition" of select articles in the print edition. For example, say
that you do an interview with FM Chow. You'd have the interview in the
magazine. At the end, you can have a caption, "For more details and color
pictures, etc, go to www.ilchess.org/chowinterview etc, or a game he
annotated could be available online to view and play through (thanks to Matt
for showing me how to do that). I kind of got that idea from Oprah. She
has an "After the Show" special on the Oxygen network. So if you want more
details that couldn't fit in the hour show, you can tune in later for the
full details. I use this method with my work website for the school I work
for, and I use it in the Chess in Chicago newsletter.

I know that it comes down to the volunteer problem, which I'm sure the
replies to this will so kindly indicate. Most of the things I mentioned
aren't hard. I have Adobe Acrobat. If the magazine was sent to me in an
electronic form I could convert it to PDF for the webmaster, no problem. I
look forward to the responses to perhaps my longest post ever.

lawilson
www.chessinchicago.org

"Ron Suarez" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:55:50 GMT, "lawilson"
wrote:

Wow, I expected more detailed replies to my enormous message. I guess I'm
not as important as I thought (LOL). Take care guys.

lawilson


I'm sorry. I was going to post a reply when my neighbor stopped by to
chat about a neighborhood issue. When I got back to the computer you
had reposted.

Good point. How do I go about seeing ot getting you stuff? I need to
go back and find a link to your site. Maybe you would be so kind as
to repost it.

Thanks,
Ron Suarez



  #10   Report Post  
Old April 21st 04, 03:24 PM
KingSack
 
Posts: n/a
Default Let's say I'm wrong about the ICA

The Masked Bishop wrote in message om...

So, make book on which comes first: Larry Cohen's ICA website letter to
membership, or Kingsack's digital proof of his real identity? Get the
popcorn...

Cheers, TMB


That would be the digital proof of my identity which you would already
have if the e-mail adress in your profile were valid.

As for contacting the membership, I suspect that an actual physical
mailing would probably be more effective than a website posting given
the minimal amount of traffic that the website gets.

So TMB, why don't you come out of the closet and be the first to
volunteer?
You don't have to thell them you are TMB so they might take you
seriously, for a while anyway. (If you are actually helpful rather
than being a useless cynic and critic they may not catch on)... How
much popcorn do you think I will need to wait this one out???

LOL, Kingsack
Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where did I go wrong in this game? Alberich rec.games.chess.analysis (Chess Analysis) 8 June 17th 04 08:45 PM
IS IT WRONG TO PLAY VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES? Gunny Bunny rec.games.chess.computer (Computer Chess) 5 June 2nd 04 08:44 PM
What's wrong with 2. ..Nf6 after 1. d4 d5 2. c4 ? Dr. David Kirkby rec.games.chess.analysis (Chess Analysis) 9 January 21st 04 01:28 AM
a USCL 3+1 wrong plan rec.games.chess.analysis (Chess Analysis) 0 November 19th 03 01:22 AM
Shredder 7.04 goes wrong by endgame Laurens Stoelers rec.games.chess.computer (Computer Chess) 6 November 3rd 03 01:25 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 ChessBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Chess"

 

Copyright © 2017