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Old January 19th 13, 11:50 AM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,alt.history,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.german,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Charlemagne - an American Ancestor

On Jan 18, 1:44*pm, "Leo" wrote:
Some people seem to think the notion of Charlemagne being an ancestor of Americans as far fetched.

Marc Hoover alerted me to an article in NEHGS Nexus June/August 1989 by H.. M. West Winter Essay: On intermarriage Among the Descendants of Charlemagne.

In this article a list is given which tells how many times the following descend from Charlemagne. For some between brackets the number of lines I have.

William the Conqueror *1 (1)
Henry I *19 (7)
Stephen 25
Henry II 28 (10)
John 50 (17)
several more ending with
Edward III 1,601
The Black Prince 3,132------John of Gaunt and his siblings as well of course.

To me it seems the notion that Charlemagne is an ancestor of Americans, should be beyond doubt.

I had hoped my figures would be closer to those quoted by H. M. West Winter, it only shows how much more work I need to do.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia


As I understand it, the family lines of Charlemagne "Daughtered
Out". In other words, although he had many sons, his sons did not have
any sons, and so his y-DNA ceased to exist.

We can be thankful for that because if he did have any direct male-
line descendants, they would own all of Europe and us common people
would have nothing.

However, he had lots of descendants, but in the female line, so the
MtDNA of some of his wives would be in the present population
including, most likely, in America.

Sam Sloan
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Old January 20th 13, 02:51 AM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,alt.history,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.german,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Charlemagne - an American Ancestor

Thank you for the original post. I belong to the "Colonial Order of
the Crown" which membership requires proven descent from Charlemagne
(Karl der Gross).
Who was the ancestor that I proved was descended from Charlemagne?
They were my Magna Charta Baron ancestors Barons Bigod (father and
son).
Yes! I actually saw the genealogy probative of this descent from Baron
Bigod to Charlemagne. It was amazing. I am, also, a member of the
Somerset Chapter Magna Charta Barons from the Barons Bigod (father and
son).
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Old January 20th 13, 03:20 AM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,alt.history,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.german,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Charlemagne - an American Ancestor

I found the URL of a web site that contains the genealogy from
Charlemagne to the Barons Bigod.
Here it is:

http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecil...arl_of_Norfolk
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Old January 20th 13, 09:25 AM posted to soc.genealogy.medieval,alt.history,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.british,rec.games.chess.politics
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Default Charlemagne - an American Ancestor

On Jan 19, 7:20*pm, Marcus Aurelius wrote:
I found the URL of a web site that contains the genealogy from
Charlemagne to the Barons Bigod.
Here it is:

http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecil...emagne_to_Hugh...


Thank you for providing this list.

You will note that for each of these eight family lines, there are at
least two breaks for "illegitimate daughter" or "doubtful daughter"
and in every case the Y-DNA of Charlemagne and the MtDNA of his wives
did not survive.

Added to this is the fact that people will often claim to have royal
ancestry even when they do not.

As to the probability of this happening, just look at the most
documented family in history, the British Royal Family, which has died
out several times. For example, Queen Victoria became queen even
though she was just a distant relative when the main British Royal
Family had neither male nor female heirs.

There was even doubt about whether Queen Victoria was really a member
of that family or whether she was not, in a word, a *******,
especially since carried the gene for hemophilia which was not
previously known to exist in the British Royal Family.

And let us continue to keep quiet with our doubts that must exist
about whether extraordinary means were used to produce the soon to
arrive next heir to British Royalty.

Sam Sloan
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